 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2009-07-19 12:21
Ok boys and girls, can any of you enlighten me as to why there is such an intrusive bore obstruction as pertaining to the speaker key hole. On my particular instruments Bb and A Clarinets this obstruction tube is more that one third of the way into bore the bore being approx 15mm in diam, a great little pull- through catcher if ever there was one. I realize that it is meant to prevent condensation from entering the tone hole but why does it have to be so long ? I once had a German Oehler Clarinet and it had a very well designed lever that went round and over to the top of the pipe thus removing the need for any obstruction into the bore. I have also looked at the Clarinets of other players and it does vary in length from about 3 mm to 6 mm, mine seems to be about 6mm. Even though I haven't approached my Clarinet repairer as yet I am tempted to ask him to take the damn thing out and shorten it to about 3mm and while he's at it to also round off the outside edge of it so that a pull- through will not get caught on it . Or is there some mysterious reason for such an obstruction.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2009-07-19 12:24)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-07-19 13:47
The length of the speaker tube is just as important as the diameter and shape of the inside, so shortening it will have an impact on the tuning and response of the throat Bb and upper registers.
One way around this is to have the speaker tube removed and refitted so it doesn't intrude so far into the bore, but you may experience more problems with condensation if you do this.
On my old Selmer basset horn the speaker tube protrudes a long way into the bore and pullthroughs always catch on it. I shortened it by around 3-4mm but this was disastrous as it caused loads of problems in the upper register and threw the throat Bb way out of tune.
Fortunately I could resolder the piece of speaker tubing I removed back on and this restored the playability, and I reset it into the joint so it doesn't protrude so far into the bore.
If you look at the new student model Schreiber Boehm system clarinets (which are in essence the B12 and E11), they have the German style wrap-around speaker key and domed speaker bush. Even so, German and Oehler clarinets aren't entirely gurgle-free as water can still condense in the speaker bush even though it's on the upper side of the bore - likewise saxes can get water condensing in the crook 8ve vent and then you've got oboes whose 8ve vents can fill up with water just like that.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-07-19 13:53
Hi Barry, this subject has been discussed to fair length on our BBoard, so a Search [above] is worthwhile. The only US patent I have found [so far] is to A Galper # 5,241, 890 which has references cited dating back to the early 1900's worth looking at. It is still available for purchase from a BB contributor. My own observation of this "art" is that both Leblanc and Selmer [others?] in the mid 1900's found workable speaker [register] tube [vent, hole, key] "confugurations" to produce BOTH good quality "pinch" Bb's and also in-tune 12ths [clarion] notes required of this single "speaker". Larger clarinets and saxophones, oboes etc make use of several vents for best tone quality. A big subject !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-19 14:25
It is an interesting question. I've heard people say many time that some clarinets have the 'wrong" size tube. Some people think some repair people put in an A tube in a Bb or visa versa. I believe that the Bb clarinet usually has a shorter tube than does an A, at least that's the way it is on my set of older Buffets as well as my newer Selmer Signature Bb. When I've had students with intonation problems in the altissimo register or throat Bb I would have them experiment with some different size tubes. Many good experienced repairman have a selection of them and they "pop" out easy for replacement.
I had Guy Chadash move the tube higher on my older Buffet A, 92000 series years ago, to improve the intonation on that instrument. He built me a new tube in his shop. We experimented with the length of the tube and the size of the diameter until we found the ideal size. First the altissimo register was good but the throat Bb was very flat, then too sharp etc. until it was just right. As I stated above, my A tube is longer and appears thinner than does the Bb tube on my Buffet or Selmer. The bottom line is if it's playing in tune leave it alone, if not have it changed. Remember though, different tubes will change things, for the good or the evil. ESP
http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-07-19 15:35
If it's only the amount of protrusion into the bore that's a cause for concern, have it installed so there's less inside the bore and then have the speaker key pad cup realigned so the pad will seat onto it evenly instead of at a funny angle. This is relatively easy for any decent repairer to do and shouldn't cost a fortune.
I had the opposite problem with my Leblanc LL as there wasn't enough of the speaker tube protruding into the bore, so I countersunk it deeper to allow the speaker bush to be screwed much further into the joint and this helped to reduce the effects of condensation and the gurgling Bbs.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-07-19 17:22
Keep in mind that a clarinet doesn't really 'flow' air through it in the same sense as the exhaust system of an automobile -- instead the clarinet is a container for STANDING waves produced by a vibrating reed which happens to be excited by air flowing past it, suitably interrupted by the flapping of the reed. So a protrusion into the bore by the register tube (or whatever), or gaps caused by pulling the barrel or other joints out, are not as serious a perturbation as you might intuitively expect. Their effects result mainly from changes in the overall volume and positions of vibrational nodes inside the clarinet 'tube', much more so than from impeding the linear flow of air through the instrument.
Pardon my muddled synopsis of what I THINK Benade wrote!
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-07-19 19:39
I agree with Eddie. Leave the speaker tube alone unless you have the specific tuning problems or tone problems he mentioned. The manufacturer made the tube that way and there is usually a very good reason.
Use a slik swab and you won't have to worry about the swab catching.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
New CXZ_K11* mouthpiece
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2009-07-20 00:35
Thankyou guys for enlightening me so well about this. After reading all your comments I will now NOT be getting the tube altered. This is an excellent example of how wonderfully useful this Clarinet BBoard is and yes, Grabnerwg I will get myself a silk swab from somewhere.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-07-20 02:33
Just make sure the swab is fully opened and not knotted up at all so it "flows' through. That the main reason they get caught on the tube. Fully open it before swabing. ESP
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2009-07-20 14:41
And of course use common sense in using your swab! If it's getting stuck then back it out the other end and try again.
I've seen too many, especially young guys, rush into things without thinking and break things (remembering a young friend doing me a favour and closing my car hood, except that was supported by that post that some cars have. Oops!) Some will feel that the swab's getting stuck and think it'll free up if they just pull harder, only to have it get jammed tight in there.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-07-20 14:55
Yes to the above advice, I swab DOWN in the U J, and UP in the L J, avoiding trouble, "retrievable swabs". Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-07-20 19:28
Ed,
Regarding the wrong tube being installed by the manufacturer; that was the case with an Opus (not Opus II) that I bought toward the end of that model's run.
The instrument sounded very stuffy in the clarion, and was very resistant in that range also, so I got hold of Tom Ridenour. He told me that Leblanc had problems with register tubes for their A clarinet being carelessly used for the Bb instrument. Tom replaced the tube, and all was well.
B.
Post Edited (2009-07-20 19:53)
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2009-07-22 03:49
When I saw the title of this thread, I thought it was going to be like the time I couldn't get my clarinet to play...only to find my tube of cork grease had somehow nestled inside the bore.
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2009-07-22 09:57
Claire Annette wrote:
> When I saw the title of this thread, I thought it was going to
> be like the time I couldn't get my clarinet to play...only to
> find my tube of cork grease had somehow nestled inside the
> bore.
One guy I play with in bands (very good sax player) once had trouble with his alto and reached into the bell to produce a 500ml bottle of orange Tango!
Vanessa.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-07-22 21:53
Tie a string on the back end.....and pull on it if the swab gets stuck.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-07-23 09:29
Tie the string to a door handle and slam it shut.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-07-23 17:11
Haha.....I got a chamois swab stuck at the tube once...that's when you wish you had tied the string. Never had a silk swab get stuck. Incidently , I have a problem calling the register tube an obstruction since it's an integral part of the horn.
Bob Draznik
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-07-23 19:04
Bob Draznick wrote "I have a problem calling the register tube an obstruction since it's an integral part of the horn."
I have no problem calling my managers at work 'obstructions', even though they're an integral part of the company.
![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-07-23 19:55
That's me for the Galper Speaker Key/Register Tube - but it's for Buffet R-13 Bb Clarinets only.
I wouldn't just have a tech shorten your tube as you could end up with an unusable tube afterwards. The wrong length tube can give you results from a bad scale to a grunt on the upper notes.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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