 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: lacruiser
Date: 2009-07-09 06:54
Hi all. My upper joint is leaky, so I think it's time for new pads. It's not a pro instrument, it's an E-11.
There are different kinds of pads out there. Silicone, double bladder, etc.
The silicone seems kind of interesting, anyone know anything about them? Do they play differently? It seems they'd last longer.
And, the type of glue to use seems to vary also. I see shellac, glue pellets, and Micro brand pad glue. What's the best?
thanks
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-07-09 10:52
Pads?
I have occasionally used a Norbek silicone rubber pad in a troublesomely wet environment.
They are very fussy about how they are installed, and the state of the tone hole edge, and last indefinitely, but they tend to stick slightly to the tone hole, which many players would find really annoying.
There is little wrong with the conventional bladder pads.
Cork pads are also good for the smaller keys, but may need a fair bit of preparation work to make tone hole edges blemish-free. They also take longer to install. Plenty of stuff already here in the forum about them.
Leather pads are a bit of a current fad. They may last a long time, but in what state? Hard & non-accommodating? Porous?
If you want what is possibly the best pad available, a new type, "Omni pads", you will have to pay a fair bit more. Only available to technicians, from Kraus.
IMO How pads are put in is far more important than the type of pad, so choose your techniican well!
Are you going to try to do the job yourself? Then best to stick with bladder.
Glue? Both "French" (cream coloured) shellac sticks, and the amber coloured pellets from Smith Musicmedic are good. i now prefer the pellets. I don't like the opaque, off-white pellets of Georges glue. They give no indication when the glue is hot enough to stick.
I doubt that any worthy technicians use the Micro paste. It really is quite unsuitable. Unsuitable for pretty well anything! It relies on evaporation of alcohol to set, and that is going to take a mighty long time behind a pad! Until then, it is soooo messy!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-07-09 14:44
I am entirely at odds with Gordon's pad and glue preferences, so let me state first that I have no formal training in woodwind repair and have developed my own techniques that are often out of the mainstream. I have tremendous respect for Gordon and his reputation, although I do certain things quite differently than he does.
On all sizes of clarinets and saxophones, as well as the few oboes and flutes I've repadded, I've used tan leather pads with silicone glue (variously known as RTV, silicone caulk, silicone seal, etc.).
I tried the Norbeck pads years ago and absolutely hated them -- I won't go into why, you can search previous threads here on the BB for more details.
As always, there are many ways to achieve the same goal.
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Author: lacruiser
Date: 2009-07-09 17:52
Thanks to both of you for your responses.
Yes, I'm going to attempt this myself. I'm a very handy guy, used to fooling around with things that require tight tolerenaces, etc. I figure the worst case is that I put in the pads wrong, then have to pay someone to re-pad the clarinet, which is right where I am now.
So, since I'm a neophyte at this, I think I'll stay away from the silicone, based on your comments. I guess the best bet for me is the double bladder.
I like silicone glue, but the fact that it's not adjustable once set may be a problem for me, should I set the pads incorrectly. At least with hot glue, shellac, or glue pellets, I can re-heat and re-position if necessary.
So, maybe some glue pellets and double bladder pads would be my ticket.
I'm in Los Angeles. any suggestions to brand and/or sources for these? Are they just referred to as "double bladder", or is there another name they go by?
thanks
Dana
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-07-09 19:39
Skin, bladder and double bladder pads are the various names for the same thing - a pad made with two layers of goldbeaters skin (bovine intestinal membrane used for sausage skin and gut strings) over a felt disc with a cardboard backing.
They will have a stepped profile so the cardboard disc will fit inside the pad cup but the larger diameter of the felt disc will be flush (or thereabouts) with the outer diameter of the pad cup.
The measurement of the pad is taken from the largest diameter (the felt disc). They're best glued in with white shellac, though you can always use amber - the colour of the shellac is the only real difference as they have the same properties.
You can make a pad levelling tool from a sheet metal nailfile with a rounded handle end, or buy a set of pad irons (which come in all diameters) from any specialist.
To test the pads are seated correctly, use the finest cigarette papers you can get and trim them into a long triangle with the tip being around 1-1.5mm wide. Use this as a feeler gauge so you can test the pressure of the pad around the entire circumference of the tonehole. You can eiter set your pads so they have equal pressure all round, or with slightly less pressure at the side nearest the hinge tubing.
When testing pads in open-standing keys (ring key pads and the large F/C and E/B pads), use very light and gentle finger pressure to close the pad against the tonehole instead of pressing it hard forcing it to seat - you will only disguise leaks this way, and will end up with a clarinet that leaks under normal use (or you'll have to play with firm finger pressure!).
Get your pads all seating properly before regulating the mechanism, and make sure the adjusting screw on the throat G# cup arm has a tiny gap between the tip and the throat A key. You can gauge just how much of a gap you need by slowly opening the throat A key and you'll feel the point where it makes contact with the G# key.
You want less than 0.5mm of a gap - probably around 0.2mm so you can just feel when it makes contact with the adjusting screw. Too much of a gap and you'll notice the contact and the throat G# key won't be opening far enough.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-07-09 19:48)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-07-09 21:42
I doubt it - they'll have skin, leather or Gore-Tex pads.
The Gore-Tex pads have an outer layer of Gore-Tex but an inner layer of goldpeaters skin, so they're not vegan. But Buffet do use hot glue to stick pads in with.
If you want a truly vegan instrument, you're best playing any brass instrument, or recorder (and one without ivory rings).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-07-10 05:56
"Skin, bladder and double bladder pads are the various names for the same thing..."
Not quite, but almost.
A top top m,manufacturer used to sell both double bladder and single extra thick bladder, which I actually preferred.
However the standard is now double bladder, which has the advantage that if the first layer is compromised, the second may stop the felt absorbing moisture and swelling to become unplayable during a performance..
What is more important is that you buy from a reputable supplier, because there is some mighty low quality bladder being used, especially recently on new Buffets. It is thin and brittle, and often starts failing within a year.
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