 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Maestro_6
Date: 2009-07-04 00:10
Evening all,
I figured I need to move up a strength from my current Vandoren Traditional #3 Reeds since seeing my sound becoming slightly more "wild" in a soft sense with some unnecessary squawks during quick articulations...
So, I have about 2 boxes of Traditional #3's, then a box I recently bought a box of V12 #3.5, thinking of trying them out to compare, which I've been breaking in 4 new 3.5 V12 reeds. I've seen a notable difference that these #3.5 V12 are harder than my current Trad. #3's, even after I've heard the V12's must be a half size increased to match the Traditional's strength. I mainly stay on the Traditionals and only do concise break-in sessions with the V12, so i do not think my embouchure has adjusted the the V12's hardness. In addition, I also have some older #3 V12 reeds which are entirely too soft.
I plan to increase strength to eliminate the issues mentioned above. My tone is always complimented greatly, and I'd like to stay on my road to improvement... What I am asking is: Has anyone else discovered this difference? And.. This being said, how similar are the V12 #3.5 to the Traditional #3.5?
Thank you for you time as well as any feedback!
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-07-04 00:43
From the Vandoren reed strength chart, V12s are approximately a quarter strength less than Traditionals. However, comparing V12 3.5s to Traditional 3.5s I feel very little, if any, difference (other than what can be attributed to differences reed to reed even amongst the same type). After moving to V12 3.5s from Traditional 3s and staying there for a little while, my teacher recommended I try Traditional 3.5s as an increase in strength. I was told I would either love them or hate them. What I found (which might mark me as totally insane) was that once broken in properly, I felt no discernible difference at all between the V12 3.5s and the Traditional 3.5s, whether it be strength, tone quality, or ease of articulation. To answer your question, basically I feel that V12s actually are a quarter step stronger than Traditional 3s, while being very close (if not the same) strength as Traditional 3.5s, so it may take some time to get used to them. You may also want to switch your MP to a slightly more closed tip to correct the difference in strength. I did this, and the result was the more focused tone I was hunting for, without the agony of playing on a reed that's too hard.
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Author: Maestro_6
Date: 2009-07-04 01:54
Very interesting! Thank you for your post. I suppose Traditional #3.5 reeds sounds superb now. I seem to enjoy the cut of Vandoren's Traditional reeds anyway...
I currently use my beloved Gigliotti P facing which both my teacher and I find a delight to play/hear. Now, this P facing is a pretty closed tip anyway, and I've seen Gigliotti's chart which prefers a #4 MINIMUM (Traditional)..... If I'm using a #3.5, or will soon be the using #3.5 Traditional, will this make a difference for the worse, despite my previous use of #3? Or possibly it just may be personal preference as I've discovered.
... Thanks again.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-07-04 02:59
The V12 and the Vandoren Traditional reeds are totally different from each other as to: tip profile, tip thickness, the slope and initial cut of the vamp and the shape/thickness of the blank.
Other than that, they are the same ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
...GBK
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-07-04 03:02
Gigliotti for the last several years of his playing career used V12 4.5 with his "P" facing (which he played in the orchestra from the time it was in prototype experiments). Before V12s became available he used Vandoren traditional #5 and, for a short period of time when Vandorens were difficult to buy in the U.S., Mitchell Lurie #5.5. His goal was always to have a reed that responded cleanly without much embouchure pressure, and he adjusted his reeds of whatever strength he was using at any given time to get maximal vibration but with enough heartwood to produce a strong sound with lots of "ring." He designed the "P" facing to allow him to use a reed with a stiff heart without its being stuffy and unresponsive.
All this means that it is very possible to play harder reeds than you are using on this mouthpiece. How hard a reed you use depends on what you're comfortable with. The only way to find out if one strength works better than another *for you* is to try reeds of each strength and see. You might ask your teacher, if you haven't already discussed it, about reed balancing and adjusting. There are several good booklets (or chapters in longer books) that give some good ideas. Often if you're at the best reed strength for your mouthpiece, instrument and embouchure, imbalances across the tip become more important and reeds can feel stuffy that turn out to be very playable with a little adjustment.
I'm not surprised that you've found V12 #3 too soft. But keep in mind also that reed strengths can be a little erratic from one batch to the next, or, I've always suspected from my own experience, from one season to another. I've used VD Traditional #5 all through the regular playing season but for the past month or so have found them uncomfortably heavy. So I've switched for now to V12 #4.5. I don't really know if it's the summer weather or stiffer cane, but for the time being I've stopped even trying #5s and will stick to the #4.5s until they seem too soft.
Those charts are a starting point, but *your* reaction to actual reeds is the best standard to follow.
Karl
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Author: HBO
Date: 2009-07-04 07:25
Their strength is about the same. The only difference I noticed between the two is the sound... I used traditional and V12 together, mixed in a Rico vitalizer bag, and traditional was much more bright and somewhat hollow. Other than that, no difference.
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Author: Maestro_6
Date: 2009-07-04 16:16
Good to know. Maybe I'll keep these #3's on hand in case the season makes these sizes erratic as you said. I find the two cuts quite similar in feel, though the V12 seems slightly darker, yet kind of "loud." I've always found my Traditional reeds to have that centered tone I desire. However, my Rovner Dark seems to keep the sound dark anyway.
Will be ordering Trad. #3.5's today. Happy 4th of July!
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Author: Maestro_6
Date: 2009-07-08 04:10
Evening once again,
Just thought I'd come in with my feedback on the new Vandy 3.5 Traditional reeds.
For now, I've been using those V12's in the meantime. Boy, did they seem unbalanced.. I got plenty of chirps and was not very equal in each register. The funny thing was: when I got the reed rush out to adjust them, the V12's looked pretty darn good in shape... Now, I got 2 boxes (Traditional), a just took out two #3.5 Trads. and discovered the similarity (in strength) these are to the #3.5 V12. Granted, they are VERY slightly stiffer, being that they haven't been broken in, but I got two winners! The playing lost those chirps and runs through the registers with excellent tone quality. It seems as if the 3.5 Traditional reeds fit me better than the previous sizes/cuts.
I guess I scored well on this!
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2009-07-08 07:28
You can always be a little adventurous and try out the new Forestone Synthetic reeds. I am simple amazed at how good they are, and very consistant from one reed to another. I use the softest they have at the moment, which is a -3. and there are two grades firmer than this, 3 and +3. Two drawbacks to them though, they are expensive, and when you first try one out you may experience a 'psychological' problem with the 'feel' of it. It took me a day or so to get use to a non-cane reed being in my mouth. But then I just 'grew' into it. An identical sound to cane reed with good control in dynamics and intonation. I've already been playing on these for about a month now and it looks as though I'll be saying goodbye forever to those inconsistant, unpredictable cane reeds.
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