 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Anonymous
Date: 2000-11-09 06:17
I was wondering what the present clarinetist of today's society views Frank Cohen's playing of the Cleveland orchestra. How about Thea King?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-11-09 11:58
Please don't put bogus email addresses in the Email field - just leave it blank if you don't want anyone to know what it is.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-11-09 13:55
I'm quite interested in Thea King right now. I heard a snippet of her playing on my car radio, and I became intrigued. Plus, Graham Elliot wrote something on this BB that fascinated me. He compared Thea King and De Peyer. I quote very poorly, but it was something like "De Peyer has an externally compelling sound, but King has a sound with more depth [VERY poor quoting, I'm sorry]." The upshot is that I still haven't gotten around to buying any Thea King cds (I have a closet of De Peyer lps), but I really do want to hear more of her playing. Lately, I've done a lot of reconsideration about what I consider to be good clarinet sound.
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Author: Dave Spiegelthal
Date: 2000-11-09 15:00
Many months ago in a much earlier thread, I mentioned that I was driving home one night and heard an absolutely fantastic performance on the radio of Brahm's Clarinet Quintet --- it was SO good I pulled off the road and turned off the car so that I could really listen. It turned out to be a live performance with Frank Cohen playing the clarinet, with some of his orchestra-mates providing the string sectiot. IMHO his performance was head-and-shoulders more beautiful and musically satisfying than any I'd heard, including the classic Karl Leister performance (which I have on record --- historical note: a record is one of those old, huge vinyl discs with the grooves cut into it, for you youngsters out there). So perhaps Cohen should be on the short list of clarinetists to listen to and emulate?
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Author: Al Renino
Date: 2000-11-09 16:24
I don't get to hear Frank's playing live anymore but on recordings and radio,I hear a sensative, mature artist.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-11-09 16:33
I'm probably in the minority on this.
Thea King's recordings of Brahms are among the best, but I find her other recordings unsatisfactory. Her tone is always good, but her technique is not, and on music more difficult technically than Brahms, the effort is so obvious that I can't enjoy it.
Franklin Cohen is as good a technician as there is, and I have heard him give excellent live performances. There is no better orchestral player. His solo recordings leave me cold, though. I find them perfect but without much life.
YMMV.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Keil
Date: 2000-11-09 19:24
This isn't about Cohen but since we're getting others opinions on clarinetist how do the members of this board feel about Jon Manasse and Ricardo Morales? Feel free to email me your replies both positive and negative... and feel free to discuss their teaching techniques... i'm curious as to whether they are better teachers or players or superb at both!
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Author: Dave Spiegelthal
Date: 2000-11-10 13:41
While we're beginning to veer off topic here, I thought I'd place a question to the group: Does anyone know what's going on with clarinetist Charles Stier? He was a doctoral music student at the University of Maryland (studying with Dr. Norman Heim) while I was an undergrad, and we played in the clarinet choir together there. He's also an incredibly friendly guy, much more down-to-earth and outgoing than your stereotypical classical soloist-type person. I've since seen him once (about 15 years ago) and I've got a CD he did (it's good), but I haven't seen his name mentioned anywhere recently. Anyone know?
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Author: Frank
Date: 2000-11-12 00:07
RE: Thea King: I find that I can not listen to her. Her concept of sound is so very far my mine and all of my teacher's, that it's almost impossible for me to dig through that bright, nasal tone and listen to her interpretations. For me, the British school of clarinet (if you can actually call it a school....and you probably can't!) is not very impressive to me. The technique if phenomenal, but the tone is not pleasant--with the exception of Michael Collins (ex. his recording of "Gnarly Buttons").
RE: Frank Cohen: I've studied with two of his students (one from Blossom, and one from Aspen....both were also students of Russianoff), and I've heard conflicting opinions about him. As for myself, I am not impressed with his recording of "Premiere Rhapsodie," but I think most of my problems with that recording stem from the engineering of the CD. Apparently up close he doesn't sound too good, but out in the audience of Severance Hall, he's quite angelic. A bit of gossip: apparently his second chair is going nuts playing next to him. I'm not sure how to interpret this information, so I won't! Oh, I also know of a person who got his bachelors from Frank at CIM, but didn't stick around for him masters. He got that from Dave Breeden at SF Conservatory. Again, I don't know how to interpret that, so I won't!
My two cents,
Frank
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Author: Anthony Taylor
Date: 2000-11-12 00:08
I spent six weeks near Cleveland at the Kent/Blossom festival and got to hear Cohen alot during that time. He is extremely conscientious about his music making, always thinking about phrasing, working on reeds, and has the most incredible rhythm in the orchestra. Hearing him play in any Beethoven symphony is such a treat, because he lays down the clarinet parts with a confident yet graceful approach. I don't think that there is any perfect player, but listening to Cohen play in the orchestra is really worth the time and trouble.
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Author: Steve Hartman
Date: 2000-11-12 14:01
I don't thing that gossip has a place on this bulletin board.
Frank Cohen is the principal clarinetist of the Cleveland Orchestra and, as such, deserves our respect and interest.
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Author: Steve Hartman
Date: 2000-11-12 14:03
Proofreading, however, should have a place on this bulletin board!
I meant, of course: "I don't thinK......."
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-11-12 15:10
Steve -
I have to disagree with you on this one. Opinions about even top players are legitimate. Like Frank, I think that Franklin Cohen is at his best in the orchestra, but he's not my favorite soloist.
As to personalities, I think that they are also legitimate topics of discussion. There was a long and serious thread a year or so about the Mozart Concerto and Robert Marcellus's master classes. Everyone agreed that he had wonderful things to say, but cautioned that he would become angry at any attempt at ornamentation. If you wanted to get his very valuable insights, there were topics you simply had to avoid, and I think it was perfectly proper for teachers to caution their students about the problem.
You're an active performer, and I know that you hear, and maybe even express, pretty salty opinions about other players. I have opinions about some players that I would be cautious about expressing on the Klarinet board, at least in the same words I would use with you in private, and the last thing I would like to see is the sort of continuous flame war that has ruined other discussion groups. Still, I wouldn't rule the topic out completely.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Steve Hartman
Date: 2000-11-12 15:51
Ken:
I was referring specifically to the post by "Frank" a few posts above ours and the "bit of gossip" that he included in his post. That, to me, is different than expressing a personal opinion and is not appropriate. In other words, I can say that I think so-and-so stinks, but I should not say that YOU think that. Does that make sense?
Steve
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Author: Mark Charette, Webmaster
Date: 2000-11-12 19:04
Let's leave "gossip" out of the picture here! Whether or not the 2nd clarinet of Cleveland has a problem with the 1st is not germane at all to discussing whether or not we like the 1st's playing.
Also - be advised that very often people choose other teachers at different stages of their learning career - having a different teacher for undergrad and grad work is <b>much</b> more common than having the same teacher.
Geez - look what happens when I'm out of touch for a day and a half :^) I would have edited out the gossip part but it's too late now.
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Author: steve roberts
Date: 2006-02-27 07:31
My comment is probably a bit tardy on this thread. I keep reading about R. Marcellus "getting mad" etc. about any ornamentaion in the Mozart Concerto. Has anybody actually listened to his recording? It is full of ornamentation. Trills, appoggiaturas, grace notes etc. I think you could be talking about excessive ornamentation? I remember him concerned, and aptly so, that the concerto had a clear sense of musical line and that line was simply presented without being overly ornamented. I also remember that when he first played the concerto for G. Szell he was asked to leave out many of the traditional ornaments that were common in 1961.
We were all paying a hefty fee to Mr. Marcellus for lessons (or hefty tuition) and I think I can speak for all of his students, we were paying him to criticize us as needed and pass on his views and wisdom. He spent very little time "mad" in lessons and I can assure you that if he was mad he should have been.
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-02-27 13:02
Steve -
I think that a quick search with the search function near the top of this bboard with the words Marcellus Smith Mozart Leeson would produce some very interesting results! Use "Relevancy" in the drop down menu and check the additional box for Klarinet mailing list archives.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Flanders
Date: 2006-02-27 14:10
http://www.cherryvalleymusic.com/charles/bio.htm
"Since 1998, Stier has withdrawn from teaching and performance. This is in response to the current dominant focus of American academic institutions, talent agents and major concert promoters on show business rather than artistry. The shift from the recognition and reward of qualitative excellence and artistic presentation of serious music to the valuation of quantitatively accessible entertainment has marginalized his public efforts.
Stier continues his work as an artist, recording artist, record producer, arranger and composer. His original major musical works include Piano Quintet in B minor, Op.1, Seven Songs of Emily Dickinson for Soprano and Piano, Op.2 and The Robert Frost Songs for Voice and Piano, Op.3."
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2006-02-27 23:31
Having been at Juilliard with both Franklin Delano Cohen and Steve Hartman, I can only say; it was my great pleasure to hear them as fellow students...and now, many years later, to hear them as the two great players they have become.
Frank...Principal Clarinetist, Cleveland Orchestra
Steve...Clarinetist with both the NY City Opera, and the NY City Ballet.
Two great guys...two great Clarinetists...!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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