 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CassieC.
Date: 2009-04-05 23:11
I have an E11 Bb Buffet and it does just fine for high school band but I enjoy variety and new adventures when it comes to my instruments and recently I have been looking for a rosewood Bb clarinet, I am not looking for an expensive pro model just something that plays nicely and works. The problem is there is so many chinese made clarinets that are unreliable and down right unusable. So my question is, are there any cheap reliable brands that carry rosewood, besides the main ones?I found a brand named "Schiller" it claims to be a German based brand and is sold in Wisconsin US. is this an ok brand?or another chinese tale?Are there any unknown brands that sound and work ok?
Ive also seen a Venus rosewood...........?
Also how often should a wood clarinet really be oiled?Ive heard many different answers?Right now i do it once every six months or so because that's what I'm told is correct.
One last question, what do different barrels do differently?And is there a mouthpiece that is especially good for the E11 or is it a more personal preference? I have TMJ would a different mouthpiece help?
Thanks for all the help
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Author: Tsphinx
Date: 2009-04-05 23:34
CassieC.
Venus is Chinese. I'm guessing the Schiller is too. Many of these brands were designed in Europe but built in China. I notice the Schiller ads on eBay say "Schiller Engineered Frankfurt Germany". Sounds like a Chinese horn to me.
Cheers
John
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Author: CassieC.
Date: 2009-04-06 00:05
Alex,
Well rosewood clarinets are very beautiful and I would like to compare the sound of rosewood and grenadilla. Also I checked out the Rossi clarinets and they are extremely out of my price range but ill keep looking.
John,
Thanks, I figured the Venus was Chinese but some Chinese brands can be playable, for example my younger sister is just starting baritone so she got a cheap chinese make and it is much better than expected. Do you know anything of the Venus brand?Also are you sure Schiller is made in China? If it's a European design is it more reliable than the Chinese knock offs?etc.
Here is the Schiller website
http://www.schillerinstruments.com/ah.html
Post Edited (2009-04-06 00:34)
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Author: Tsphinx
Date: 2009-04-06 00:56
Cassie
The Venus definitely is Chinese. I've never had a Venus clarinet, But I've played a Venus curved soprano saxophone for quite a while. I'm impressed with it, especially the fit & finish. The sound was not bad either. A decent student instrument. Mouthpiece was Blah, and I replaced, but that's another tale.
As for Schiller, I pulled this off the Schiller web site
"Schiller Today.
Continuing to innovate Schiller Musical Instruments today by manufacturing and engineering brass and woodwind instruments. The Schiller Instruments are sold to musicians all around the world. All of the Instruments are made with a Hands on Approach and the instruments are affordable to all musicians. Schiller is now worldwide based company with engineering in Germany and corporate offices in the USA and Shanghai, China."
Found this under the "Company" heading on the website you noted in your post.
So, I'd say the likelihood of Schiller instruments being built in China is quite high.
Cheers
John
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Author: CassieC.
Date: 2009-04-06 01:40
Thanks for the help
if it plays like a student model that would work just fine.
Do you know (or anyone) if rosewood has a bad rep?I read that years ago the wood was hard to maintain but with the advancments in sealing and coating is it ok now?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-04-06 03:55
www.patricola.it might have some decently priced rosewood clarinets. For a new one. And keep an eye on used sites (or the classifieds here) for a leblanc symphony or other rosewood.
Alexi
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Author: Araneus
Date: 2014-12-18 19:12
Schiller clarinets are definitely not made in China but also not quite German. They are made by a German who lived for some years in Belgium and now moved to Sweden I think.
I've seen him making the clarinets in his workplace in Belgium.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-12-18 20:06
Look for a used rosewood Leblanc Symphonie VII clarinet or an earlier model in rosewood - that way you KNOW for definite you'll be getting a reputable clarinet from a well established maker and not some piece of here-today-gone-tomorrow Chinese crap parading as a clarinet with any old name stamped on it as any relatively unknown company sees fit.
Who are Schiller anyway? From what I see they're just yet another importer of Chinese instruments.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2014-12-18 20:56
Your best use of $ would be a full overhaul of the E11, you'll be surprised how good they can play after a proper overhaul.
Why do you want Rosewood? Don't get something based on aesthetics - go will a good, quality brand, which, you already have.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2014-12-18 21:59
Cassie:
I must be in a party pooper mood today, this being my 3rd, "think twice before buying suggestion today."
So let me start on a positive note by saying this: as a relative newcomer to the instrument, I applaud your curiosity, and as a fellow liker of nice looking things, I appreciate your visual attraction to rosewood.
But as a clarinet purist, seeking that you have the best sounding and playing instrument, I can't justify visual appearance with nearly the high priority of how the clarinet functions/sounds in your hands.
Chinese instruments....
By no means have you offended me. Many Chinese instruments are not the "pick of the litter," but I think this has to do with the fact that clarinet manufacturers at the lower end of the price spectrum seek to keep production costs low, and pay minimally for it. Needless to say, manufacturers in all nations won't be able to commit to high quality, and still make money, when paid minimally.
But take Ridenour clarinets for example. They DO spend on production costs, have close relations with select Chinese manufacuters, and have strict quality standards. This results in quality instruments, albeit more expensive than the plastic pink clarinet you may find at "that auction site," but far cheaper than some fine wood clarinets of, IMHO, comparable or less quality and often superior price. Plus, if comparing the sound of grenadilla to other things (not just rosewood) is what you're after, most of Ridenour's product lineup, otherwise made with hard rubber, would give you that chance.
Which brings us to clarinet construction materials.
I've seen some rosewood clarinets whose beauty seems only surpassed by the elegance of the sound their owners make with it. I'm in no way anti-Rosewood.
But that said, (and others will disagree) I am of the camp, and by no means its sole member, that says that once a decent material for clarinet construction is chosen (grenadilla, hard rubber, Buffet's Greenline, plastic, rosewood), the clarinet's attributes are more about the abilities and commitment to quality of its maker and player. We could spend pages discussing what makes for a good material, but its air tightness, ability to be machined with precision and limited breakage during production, and the material's stability over time play large roles.
And yet I conceede that on the whole, I think plastic clarinets are NOT as good as wood ones, but most so (IMHO) because manufacturer's aren't going to invest as much in production of plastic clarinets, resulting in higher prices, because buyers/retailers have the perception that (in Tarzan-speak) "plastic bad, wood good," and believe that the market won't support, and in fact people won't pay too high a price for plastic models.
I'll get off my soapbox on this in a moment, except to say that I believe that a vicous market cycle is formed where perception becomes reality in self-realized prophesy. To restate, "people think plastic clarinets are inferior, and/because they hold this belief, they have price ceilings on them that motivate manufactures to invest little in their production, resulting in cheap clarinets."
It's one of those "which came first, the chicken or the egg" situations.
Put plastic and money in the hands of one skilled craftsman/manufacturer, irrespective of country, and I think you'll find exceptional clarinets.
On rosewood
It's harder to machine than grendilla, both of which are harder to machine than plastic or hard rubber. This raises prices, which may result in lower end rosewood clarinets that haven't undergone the very procedures, or with the necessary rigor, like sealing the bore, that rosewood can require. (I know nothing of Schiller instruments and don't wish to disparage their rosewood models.) Rosewood clarinets, some say, are more prone to warping, and need of more frequent adjustment. And a lot of people who own rosewood clarinets also own ones of non-rosewood as well, having bought them first.
Oiling
You might want to search that here. The search button's near to the top of the screen. Lots of opinions exist on the subject matter from people who have forgotten more than I know about such procedures.
Barrels
Also good to search. Different barrels exist (among other reasons) because:
1) different length ones help with tuning, and
2) The materials and designs they are made with help carry the sound of your air making that reed go up and down real fast, and
3) There are different desings of the chamber inside, such that the diameter of where the air goes in may differ from that where the air comes out, using methods of changing the aperture size that may or may not be constant for the barrel's length.
And is there a mouthpiece that is especially good for the E11 or is it a more personal preference?
I'm of the school of thought that seeks to find matches of mouthpieces with players and their reeds, more than the idea that "clarinet model X, gets mouthpiece model Y." And when I say "match," I think you change reeds to accomodate a liked mouthpiece, not change mouthpieces to accomodate a designed brand/strength f reeds.
I have changed mouthpieces, within the group I like, to sometimes accomodate a particularly free blowing or resisitant clarinet, but that's as far at least as this clarinetist will go.
I have TMJ
Which would suggest to me, all other things equal, that you should seek a mouthpiece in which less, rather than more jaw pressure is required, so as to not impose further strain. As a starting point for seeking such a mouthpieces, but by no means the last word, the mouthpiece with a smaller tip opening, or the distance from the reed to the tip of the mouthpiece, should be sought.
I do wish to point out that many factors combine in a mouthpiece's attributes to define the air pressure and bite needed to make it shine. Many manufacture's have recommendations on the window of strength of reeds best used with a particulatar model of their mouthpiece. I'd lean towards lower numbers (weaker reeds) within this window that otherwise don't compromise your ability to play.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-12-18 22:29
At least with grenadilla clarinets from reputable makers, you know the grenadilla is from a sustainable source, whereas a lot of cheap rosewood artefacts are the result of illegal logging of endangered rain forests funded by Chinese companies and the palm oil industry in the same way the trade in rare animal parts and illegal poaching are funded by Chinese companies with no concern for welfare. So if you want to support this malpractice, then by all means buy cheap and nasty wooden instruments made in China.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-12-19 02:47
David,
I don't KNOW about this subject but I've seen plenty of 'rosewood' or cocobolo clarinets and various products available at shows to indicate that this is not the case. Perhaps there are certain species of this wood that are protected, or rosewood not actually called rosewood is not covered, but there is an awful lot of it you can get from just about anybody these days.
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-12-19 03:24
If the rosewood is legally sourced with all the documentation, then it should (in theory) be coming from a managed source doing things correctly and sustainably. Most companies get their exotic wood from a German company, but I doubt the Chinese makers follow the rules.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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