 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: TomA ★2017
Date: 2009-03-24 12:53
Hi All,
By way of intro...I am a long-time lurker of this BB. I took up the Bb clarinet 2 years ago at age 60 after a 40-year hiatus. I purchased a Buffet E11 at that time from Albert Alphin (whose website seems to have disappeared - anyone know more about this?) This forum has been extremely helpful to me in many ways, so thanks to all.
Now my question...I notice that the bridge key connection allows for rotation of the upper joint relative to the lower joint, and that in one direction of rotation the pad on the upper joint will tend to close more, and in the other direction of rotation it will tend to close less. In any case, the effect of a slight rotation is significant.
It occurs to me this might be designed to allow fine adjustments of the bridge connection while playing (instead of hauling out the pliers and bending something). Of course, this means the upper joint and lower joint would potentially not be in perfect alignment, which may or may not matter.
I would be interested in the opinions of the experts.
Don't ask why it took me 2 years to notice this :-)
Thanks in advance,
TomA
Bad Homburg, Germany
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Author: TomA ★2017
Date: 2009-03-24 14:29
Okay, before everyone tells me to search the archives, I just did...and found the answer. (It is indeed designed for fine-tuning).
So, apologies for the interruption. Next time I'll check first.
Tom
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Author: pewd
Date: 2009-03-24 15:00
its also common for the bridge to need adjustments by a tech, especially on E-11's. after 2 years, its common to have a piece of cork torn, or the bridge get bent slightly out of adjustment.
the 'bending' comment - never bend a key yourself except in an emergency situation.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: TomA ★2017
Date: 2009-03-24 15:16
Paul,
well, actually a tech did adjust it...then it wouldn't play the 1-and-1 correctly. So I replaced the cork and sanded it to the right thickness and re-adjusted the key so it would work again. In the process, I observed the rotational behavior. At first I thought it was to allow deliberate offset of the upper and lower joints (in case the fingers of both hands didn't line up so well), then I observed that the bridge arc was a bit eccentric.
One of those "eureka" moments, though not so dramatic as Archimedes'.
Thanks,
Tom
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-24 17:50
Actually it's not that simple.
I consider there are (mainly) two reasons that turning the instrument allows this adjustment. One is what you said, so a player can adjust it slightly. I'm pretty sure the other reason is that it is considerably easier to manufacture, because it isn't very accurate.
It is possible to make this linkage to work always. What you need is that the lower part of it, when pressed, is parallel to the clarinet body. This means that no matter how you twist the joints the 1-1 fingering will work like it is supposed to.
I don't remember ever seeing a clarinet with this design, which I am sure is more expensive to make because of the accuracy that is necessary, especially if it's not completely accurate from the machine and needs adjustment.
Some people might claim that it is better to have the ability to slightly adjust. But what if someone prefers a slightly different alignment of the joints? They probably don't even know it because they have to keep the bridge aligned. This method has the advantage that you can twist to the most comfortable position, and in adition, if you very quickly need to twist, the adjustment won't move.
Some might claim that for whatever reason things on the clarient move, and they are right, but in the few times I've changed the linakge to work this way, it wasn't a problem.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2009-03-24 19:13
I think the E11 mechanism is a big problem. I am not so impressed with this clarinet...I prefer the Yamaha 450 instead for the same price. I just find the feel of the E11 cheap. As to more expensive to make ...well I think companies like Buffet can certainly afford to it. Whether or not they choose to add to the price of a clarinet which comes with an additional adjustment screw is up to them. As to the R13 I still wonder if they have the G# throat adjustment screw still in plastic or did they finally go to metal screws...???
This could truly turn into a long thread...
David Dow
Post Edited (2009-03-24 19:16)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-25 03:48
>> Could also be so that when the Clarinet is assembled it doesn't rip off
>> the cork on the bridge key if the D ring isn't up when assembling it.
This is a completely seperate issue. If you press the left hand rings then it is no problem. But if you don't, it is by other ways that it is possible to make the cork more or less likely to rip off. Making the linkage work in this or another way doesn't affect this at all.
>> Whether or not they choose to add to the price of a clarinet
>> which comes with an additional adjustment screw is up to them.
I assume this refers to my comment about more expensive to make. It actually doesn't have anything to do with an adjustment screw. There are some pretty inexpensive clarinets with an ajustment screw there. An adjustment screw is just another way for the player to adjust it. It is the design of (especially) the lowe part of this linkage that is critical.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-03-25 13:48
"It occurs to me this might be designed to allow fine adjustments of the bridge connection"
IMO it is nothing other than sloppy design and adjustment, and unfortunately common to almost every manufacturer. I correct it whenever I repad an instrument, and often at other times.
IMO when the low ring key is pressed down, the lower bridge section face that contacts the upper bridge section should be cylindrically curved, and concentric to the body of the instrument.
At the same time, the surface under the upper bridge section should be flat and tangential to the curve described above at the point of contact.
This means that the joints can be twisted to different comfort configurations without messing up the linkage 'timing' which has been accurately set and does not need any adjustment provision. It needs adjustment only if one of the bridge sections is carelessly bent, or the cork VERY carelessly damaged, and takes a tech only a few seconds.
A bonus with this configuration is that even without pressing any keys down, damage to the cork or bending of keys is impossible, when twisting the joints together in the usual fashion.clarnibass wrote:
> >> Could also be so that when the Clarinet is assembled it
> doesn't rip off
> >> the cork on the bridge key if the D ring isn't up when
> assembling it.
>
> This is a completely seperate issue. If you press the left hand
> rings then it is no problem. But if you don't, it is by other
> ways that it is possible to make the cork more or less likely
> to rip off. Making the linkage work in this or another way
> doesn't affect this at all.
>
> >> Whether or not they choose to add to the price of a clarinet
>
> >> which comes with an additional adjustment screw is up to
> them.
>
> I assume this refers to my comment about more expensive to
> make. It actually doesn't have anything to do with an
> adjustment screw. There are some pretty inexpensive clarinets
> with an ajustment screw there. An adjustment screw is just
> another way for the player to adjust it. It is the design of
> (especially) the lowe part of this linkage that is critical.
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