 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-02-07 06:24
I think there's something wrong with my reeds. Some seems to be able to take my extreme playing style, while others give that sharp and high pitched screeching noise. The notes that are the main problem are D5, E5, and G5, E5 being the one that sticks out the most.
It's a problem with the reeds most likely because some of my reeds do it, and others don't. How do I fix something like this?
BTW, the screech comes out most when my lip isn't pressed against the reed completely.
I'm playing on Vandoren (blue box) 3.5 reeds, just moving from a Vandoren 3. I can't quite play a on a 4 yet.
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-02-07 15:31
My lesson teacher thought my embouchure was too strong for the 3s, and that might be what's causing the screeching problem.
But yes, I did have this problem with the 3s.
Post Edited (2009-02-07 17:12)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-02-07 22:52
If you think the problem is your reeds, the immediate question is: are you playing on the right strength? (NBeaty was getting at that)
No one can help you answer that question unless you tell us what mouthpiece you're using. The appropriate reed strength is mostly determined by the mouthpiece and then your personal preference.
You mentioned that you can't play on a 4 yet. Do you believe you have to?
The instrument itself could be at fault. Most probably not, but what type is it?
What is your "extreme playing style"?
"sharp and high pitched screeching" Do you mean squeak?
"the screech comes out most when my lip isn't pressed against the reed completely." Why do you feel you need to press INcompletely? Generally speaking my lip pressure does not change as I play.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-02-08 00:24
I'm playing on a Normandy 4, the mouth piece, I don't know as it looks like it's not from Normandy, but rather replaced. I need to replace my mouthpiece, because it's chipped at the top, although it plays well. My lesson teacher suggested to get a Vandoren M13 mouthpiece, which I hope to get soon.
I don't mean squeak. I mean a really high pitched screech, something along the lines of an E7 without trying to. (according to what my tuner says when it happens)
I don't feel the need the press incompletely. When I breathe, that's the only time my lips change form. It's just that not pressing completely against the reed seemed to be a quick and easy way to show an example.
I filed my reed on a piece of paper today, and so far, the screeches went away, at the expense of a really airy sound. However, this is usually just a characteristic of new reeds for me. (I've only done this to one of the 2 reeds that screech)
And about the reed strength... For 2 years, no one said anything that I should move up in reed strength, and so, I was just left on 3 1/2 inch Mitchell Lurie reeds until the fall last year, where I decided to move up to a 3 in Vandoren. I had a hard time playing more than 3 notes without getting lightheaded for a while. Now, as of last week, I've decided to get 3 1/2 inch Vandoren reeds.
As for the playing style... I sometimes don't tongue a note, but instead blow an extreme amount of air, which is something picked up accidentally a few weeks ago when I needed to play with more style on some music.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-02-08 15:05
Ok Moolatte, here are some more thoughts:
The mouthpiece is chipped at the top? Do you mean in/on the tip rail where the tip of the reed goes? If so, you no longer have a mouthpiece, you have a door stop! That's a pretty debilitating problem if the chip is large enough.
Because of other thoughts that you've expressed, I'm not certain that the mouthpiece is the culprit. But you'll never be able to figure out exactly what the problem is until you replace that mouthpiece because it is such a glaring issue.
A squeak is just a high pitched note, that's all it is. So as you've written it you're describing it to me as a squeak. However: I can't hear it and you're certain it's not a squeak, so I'll ignore that bit because there's nothing I can suggest.
When you breathe in the middle of a phrase is when the screech occurs if I'm understanding you correctly: regardless of mouthpiece, squeaks/screechs occur most often when the embouchure isn't set. So this begs the question: how much of your embouchure moves to enable you to breathe? Everyone is different, but perhaps someone here can help and quite obviously something needs to change to enable you to re-enter a phrase.
Filing your reeds helped: Good! But when you say "at the expense" of an airy sound you imply that you had an airy sound that you wanted and it is now gone. Is this correct? I believe that most of us would rather NOT have an airy sound...it is a tell tale sign of a poorly performing reed.
The reed strength numbers have nothing to do with inches, they have to do with a relative scale of air pressure required to activate the reed. From your statements it sounds as if you've embraced the belief that you need to play on a stiffer reed. From your statements I'm not certain that is actually true. IF your mouthpiece is busted then you need to repair that BEFORE determining a reed strength for you. An M13 will want a vandoren blue box 3.5 or 4, but you don't need to ascend to that reed strength before you buy the mouthpiece. They won't feel like a 3.5 or 4 on the appropriate mouthpiece!
Some clarinetists believe that you need to tongue the beginning of EVERY note, and I don't believe that is true. But you are saying that you've replaced tonguing the beginning of a note with a accent instead? Why? If it is appropriate to the music then it is not extreme!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-02-08 19:22
Well, my definition of a squeak is when the note jumps an octave up accidentally. ^^; This kind of screech jumps 2~3 octaves too high.
Thanks for the opinions.
Also, I want to play Eb clarinet next year. Is it going to be hard to transition?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-02-08 21:28
"Well, my definition of a squeak is when the note jumps an octave up accidentally. ^^; This kind of screech jumps 2~3 octaves too high."
Notes on the clarinet never jump up an octave, it's physically impossible. I'm trying to think of an exceptional situation, but one doesn't spring to mind. Personally, I think that's still a squeak. Getting into that M13 as soon as your comfortable would be the first thing to adjust.
Not everyone is made to play the Eb, and the best way to find out is by giving it a serious try. Are you going to be playing in band or orchestra?
Either way, composers write for the Eb in its' upper tessitura, and that can be formidable for any clarinetist. The further you get into the altissimo, the less the standardized fingerings work depending on the quality of the instrument. Buying a book that has an extensive number of alternate fingerings (Peter Hadcock's "Orchestral studies for the Eb clarinet" being one) and access to a teacher who has personal experience with the eefer would be a good idea.
Good luck!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Rusty
Date: 2009-02-09 05:21
G5!! Am I reading these differently? My charts show a G1 as the lowest chart G and G4, way up there 4 staff lines above the normal top staff line F. G5 ??
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Author: Rusty
Date: 2009-02-09 23:48
Yes, Alex I see the C4 there but I think most folk ( at least where I live) read this as C1 for a clarinet.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-02-10 04:02
Hi Rusty,
The purpose behind the C4 designation is so that there is a universal means of discussing note location without being able to see the notation. It is advantageous that we don't discuss it in terms of our instrument (or any other with limited range), but in terms of music itself (or in terms of the piano, the instrument with the greatest range).
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: theclarinetguy
Date: 2009-02-11 17:38
moolatte,
I see your ip says your from Gulfport. Are you in high school? If so, are you attending All-South at USM this weekend? If you are, I know I would be more then happy to help out or Mr. Holden, the visiting professor at USM, would love to help out.
Micheal
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2009-02-11 20:17
Hmm - his ISP lists him as Gulfport, Boulder, and Houston. My guess is that he's either an airline pilot or a computer hacker.
What's a principle clarinet?
My advice for the OP - replace the mouthpiece.
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Author: theclarinetguy
Date: 2009-02-11 23:32
Oh, well in that case I'm dumb. :o!
I'm just saying I sit top chair in the ensembles.
Actually now that I think about it, the problem would probably be the mouthpiece. I had a mouthpiece that was chipped and it gave me the same problems.
Micheal
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-02-11 23:48
Hmmm... The screeches still aren't gone, and I have more trouble with this new mouthpiece than my last one.
I got some weird results after inspecting my clarinet just a bit. Today in class, I tried pushing a pad that looked like it was not correctly placed under the key into place, and the screeching keys switched from E5 to C/D5. :/ I would send my clarinet in for repairs, but I need to know what to tell the store to repair. And because my instrument wasn't bought there, and repairing it is a little too costly. Replacing needed pads last year was $49, and I think they only replaced 1. :/
BTW, the pad is good and stuck to the key, but I got it to move just a bit.
On a side note, some other guy had the same problem, and he sent in his clarinet to fix in some bent keys, and now his problem is solved. How do I know if the keys are bent? (I just found this out today, so don't kill me for just now posting this)
This problem has been plaguing me for almost 7 months now ;_; It however disappeared in December until mid January, and the problem is worse than ever before.
Post Edited (2009-02-11 23:56)
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2009-02-12 00:05
Something is obviously wrong with your instrument if a new or different mouthpiece did not fix the problem. Most repair techs if they are at least competent will be able to asses the problems with your instrument with out you having to tell them what is wrong. If a key is bent causing a leak or if there is a leaking pad, they will find it.
Just get it fixed. Some advice for the future, always make sure that your instrument is in working order and that you play on reeds that are in the best shape possible for your situation. Playing with bad equipment, old reeds, dirty, chipped, or otherwise disfunctional mouthpiece, will only create bad playing habits and hinder your growth and enjoyment on the instrument. There is really no excuse for having the kind of problem you have been having for 7 months.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-02-12 03:57
I am in complete agreement with Ryan.
You can't expect to make good progress if you don't maintain your horn. How are you to know whether any given problem is your fault or a faulty mechanism?
If you have a choice, do not take it back to the original repair shop. $49 for a pad? That's ridiculous. If you're working with a shop like that you better know exactly what to tell them 'cause you have no idea what they'll do to you otherwise.
Find a trustworthy repair person and get it fixed. The price you pay will be worth 7 months of aggravation.
Good luck!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-02-13 23:06
Well, I don't know exactly what I can do right now. The repair place said they can't fix it until Tuesday, and I'm expected to show up to class with my instrument Monday AND Tuesday. All the school clarinets are apparently broken when I need them most.
Any quick fix suggestions? I'm still going with the bent key theory, and I will probably murder my clarinet if I try to fix it myself (I know how, just not which key)
My sister is a flute player, and she had a sorta similar problem, and she had to use cigarette paper in place of a pad or something, so I wanted to know if there was something similar I could do?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-02-14 04:10
Moolatte,
Although someone else might be able to provide insight or advice, there is absolutely nothing more I can offer with the amount of information that I know about your situation.
If I had you and your clarinet in front of me, I could figure it out in five minutes. Without hearing you play there is very little anyone can offer.
You'll have to make do until you can get the horn in. Perhaps your teacher has a spare you can borrow?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-02-14 18:26
<<My sister is a flute player, and she had a sorta similar problem, and she had to use cigarette paper in place of a pad or something, so I wanted to know if there was something similar I could do?>>
Cigarette paper is used as a feeler to find which pads are not seating on the tone hole (or what part of a pad is not in contact over its entire circumference). You put a narrow strip of it under a pad, usually once at each of 4 points around its circumference, and gently tug at it. If the paper slides out easily, the pad isn't contacting the tone hole and air is probably escaping there. It's a diagnostic tool, not a first-aid repair part.
Karl
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-02-14 19:02
Attachment: screech.mp3 (45k)
Well, I know you don't like downloading things, but I created an audio example in Finale NotePad, and it's a short example of the problem I'm sorta having.
You'll need to save it as an mp3, cause when you click on it, for some reason, it wants to save it as a text document. :/
Post Edited (2009-02-14 19:08)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-02-14 21:33
I think that I can honestly say that I've never heard anything like that before.
Was that a recording or a representation of what you experience?
Is the reverb on the recording something that I can change? (I have a new computer and I don't know if it is some presetting or your actual recording).
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-02-14 21:55
A representation of what I experience. You can hear a really high pitched note to represent the screech that I get when trying to play around there.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-02-14 22:16
If it's not the instrument, then the rails of the mouthpiece aren't parallel, of the same curving left and right, and/or the reed is somewhat asymmetrical. You said that sanding the reed helped which supports this theory. Little remedy except having a backup mouthpiece and your primary beak refaced.
Else watch the ring heights on the lower joint - each finger should, with the same pressure, close both the tonehole and the pad connected with the ring assembly at the very same time. The "comfort zone" at which this happens is very individual and varies from player to player.
If you need to raise an individual finger's ring height, put an ~1cm wide strip of postcard between tonehole and ring and gently press down the other rings. Gently. If you want to lower the ring height, put postcard strips under the other rings and press down the culprit, gently again. Just a bit at a time, and don't overdo it. Play slow and with minimal pressure to find out which ring is causing you trouble.
--
Ben
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2009-02-15 01:36
I'm thinking it's the mouthpiece or reed.
Sometimes if you sand a reed too much, you can spontaneously squeak (this especially happens if the side rails are too thin, at least in my experience)
Also, if the mouthpiece tip rail and side rails are too thin, squeaking can occur too.
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-02-15 04:44
I have a question. On the bottom joint, my dad suggested I shine a flash light through it. I did, and he said where light comes through will be what the problem will be. I shined it through the bottom of the bottom joint, and the most bottom pad on the right of it (The one that closes down on middle B/low E) lit up the most. This was the most recently repaired pad, so it shouldn't be the problem :/ It could though, but my screech keys are in the middle/top of the bottom joint, so I shined my flashlight through the top of the bottom joint, and the pad that closes down along with the rings did not glow. Although, the hole was not in direct light of the flash light. I tried shining it through at an angle, and still nothing.
If you don't want to read all that, light going through the pads that AREN'T linked to my problem keys, light NOT going through the pads linked to my problem keys.
My question after all that is, what might this mean?
:/ Also, I can't tell if the rings go down at the same time. They all feel the same to me.
Filing my reed doesn't seem to work anymore. I used to file my reeds before use all the time, but now I just get my reeds out of the box when I need new ones. Preparation always seemed to just make my sound airy, but I don't think the reeds ever did this (until I put them bottled drinking water, which for some reason always ruined my reeds by doing this. Tap water doesn't though)
My new mouthpiece, as said before, makes the screeches worse, but makes me sound a whole lot better. I don't know what to choose between. :/ My lesson teacher says since it's getting warmer down here, the alterations she made to my clarinet aren't going to help anymore, but make things worse she thinks.
I have a week to solve this problem, before I'm going to need to play some music for a grade. The music has lots of the screeching notes. ^^;
--------------------
Summarized :
Clarinet still broken, don't know why it does this, would get new reeds but I only recently got these, and my new mouthpiece doesn't want to help me out much.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-02-15 13:40
Have you tried playing YOUR mouthpiece on a friends horn, and they on yours?
You obviously want the screech to disappear as you play, and for it to REappear in your friends. If so, the clarinet is to blame.
If the screech follows you to your friends horn, then you (mpc/reed) are to blame.
That should be the next step in the investigation.
The flashlight is a good idea, but better is a a leak light that can be placed in the bore as repair tech's use.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-02-15 16:07
My lesson teacher let me play on her buffet clarinet using my mouthpiece only, and I got the same screeches, so she gave me one of her old reeds (which she did sterilize BTW) and I tried that, and the screeches went away. And I got a fuller sound on it. (On my clarinet at least) 2 weeks later, now, when I try playing that reed, it screeches worst of all. I might need to get a new reedgard or something.
I'm sorry for prolonging this all out, and I appreciate all if any help.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-02-15 16:12
So the issue is in your mpc/reed/face set-up. FYI, I don't see how the reed guard could be the culprit.
Can you share anything about your embouchure? Any chance you can give us a profile pic of you playing?
James
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2009-02-15 16:12)
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