 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ashley91489
Date: 2009-01-28 22:01
I know this isn't directly related to the clarinet but it can only improve how I play with an ensemble if I can relate everything. However, I just can't seem to 'hear' the different chord progressions. I-V-I maybe but when you throw in inversions I just can't hear what's going on nor can I truly pick out what's going on in the bass of the chord to know.
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Author: MBrad
Date: 2009-01-28 22:41
Sit down at a piano and pick out each voice in any given progression or sequence. Start with I-IV-V-I. Play another voice (or two) at the keyboard in canon so you get a chance to sing through each voice (Do-Fa-Sol-Do, Mi-Fa-Re-Me, Sol-La-Sol-Sol, Do-Do-Si-Do). When you focus on voice leading, you get more out of it than learning progressions chord-by-chord.
Post Edited (2009-01-28 22:42)
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2009-01-28 23:17
There's an excellent book published by Advance Music called "Hearing the Changes".
It's by Jerry Coker.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: brycon
Date: 2009-01-29 05:42
If you have a friend willing to help you with progressions:
Have he/she play the progression a number of times. Focus on only one aspect of the progression per hearing. For instance, on the first time through only listen for the quality of each chord- perhaps write down underneath the measures M for major, m for minor, etc. On the second hearing try to solfege the bassline as your friend plays the progression, and then on the third time solfege the soprano part. I have found a lot of success by breaking apart chord progressions like this, and with time it will come much faster and easier.
Also, be sure you are brushed up on your harmony and voice-leading. If you are unsure about a chord, but know for certain what precedes and follows it, you will often be able to determine what the missing chord is. For instance, a dominant chord in 3rd inversion will usually resolve to a first inversion chord.
Be sure not to pressure yourself into instant improvement. Training your ear to distinguish intervals, progressions, and other things takes time. With regular and efficient practice, you will improve.
I think there may be online ear training tools that can replace your friend should no one be up for a rousing game of chord progressions.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-01-29 08:22
As I recall from your other posts, you are in college, 1st or 2nd year, correct?
I had problems with this until a few years after I finished college. For me, it just took time and trial/error.
To add to the above ideas. Try to write out the chord changes of pop songs. Sit at a piano and play a pop CD. What key is it? Once you have that, you have the 1st chord. When it changes, where does it go? etc. etc. etc.
If you do it a lot, try and challange yourself. Can you get all the chords in only 3 hearings? Or 2 or 1?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-29 08:43
Have you got any Jamey Aebersold CD/booklets?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2009-01-29 17:23
I've had the opposite problem. I can hear the chord progressions and pick up on the inside and outside note changes. I can hear chords and pick out the notes on the piano, but for the life of me can't correctly name them beyond a I, IV, V or a I-V or I-IV, the basics. And this is after several attempts at advanced harmony lessons. Finally I gave up harmony lessons until the time I can take more advanced piano lessons to actually see, play, and have explained to me what the chord progressions are called.
We would sing harmonies and so can easily hear and identify the other voice lines in our head when another line was sung or played. I can do limited composition by sitting at the keyboard and putting chords together by hearing (then writing down) the sounds of them. But it's this matter of naming them that's got me baffled. Anyone else have this problem? It's pretty limiting as far as formal certification is concerned. Perhaps the above suggestions would help me, too.
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Author: MBrad
Date: 2009-01-29 21:15
To Brenda:
See if you can find some of Nadia Boulanger's teaching examples (many of which sound similar to what you have described, except they tend to focus more on sequences). I had some similar problems that you are describing until this past summer when I took some ear-training lessons from a few of her ex-students in Paris. Really an eye-opener! What I left with from those lessons was a personal realization that chord function was less important, and voice leading was much more important than I had thought. Especially when dealing with increasingly complex tonal music: unsure as to what key Brahms is settling into? ever tried to analyze early Schoenberg? Ever been simply baffled by Debussy? What do you label the chords in diatonic sequences that don't modulate?
Even just playing chord progressions at the piano becomes easier when you are thinking, for example, "Bass, Tenor, Alto, Soprano" instead of "I root...my fingers go here...IV root...now these fingers go here...V root...V--oops, wait, V-6-of-...II? wait...what notes are in that again?..." etc. Figured bass and chord functions became more instinctive, for me, only after voice leading started to become second-nature.
In my previous ear-training courses I feel there was way too much emphasis on chord *function* with voice leading generally restricted to my theory courses, mainly pencil on paper (and plunking it out on a keyboard before handing in an assignment). It isn't rocket science to assimilate the two together by yourself, but the courses were very poorly tied together and I suspect this happens at a lot of schools, even excellent ones.
This is not to imply that hearing sonoroties in context is not important; but when you are able to train yourself to hear the motion of the interior voices then the function becomes almost obvious (as in: I know what all the voices are doing, so what else could it be?). If you need to brush up on chord functions, just take out an Aldwell & Schacter or Schoenberg's Theory of Harmony...or any myriad of harmony treatises...everybody has something slightly different to say, slightly different ways to write things, slightly different opinions, depending on the time period, geographical location, compositional style, etc.
Personally, I believe, for a clarinetist, making voice leading skills second-nature is one of the most important skills to take away from any ear-training and theory course...it gives you more than plenty of clues for what to do about basic tuning, balancing with the ensemble, and phrasing, for example.
Post Edited (2009-01-29 21:21)
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Author: lreid
Date: 2009-01-30 15:15
Ashley, hearing chord progressions is actually more closely related to playing the clarinet than you might initially realize. Undoubtedly you have practiced scales and arpeggios on your instrument. Those arpeggios can really be helpful in helping you develop the sort of hearing that you're talking about.
You might think of chord progressions being unique to ensemble playing, but they're there in solo textures, as well. Think of any etude you've played. It's full of arpeggios. If you have a fully diminished seventh chord somewhere in that etude, odds are that it's going to be followed by a minor chord with a root a half-step higher than one of the notes in the fully diminished seventh chord. That's vii dim to i (or iv or whatever), and that's a chord progession.
Analyze the arpeggios in your etudes and solo music, and write in chord names above the notes. In your individual clarinet practice, you'll start hearing chord to chord, rather than just note to note, and that type of hearing will transfer to what you're trying to listen for in ensemble situations, ear training, etc.
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2009-01-30 23:24
Common chords progressions come in clusters that are each diatonic to one major scale or another. "All the Things You Are" has the first five bars from the Db major scale then three bars, II V I, from the C major scale. Orbit around those scales with secondary or ancillary scales to complement the primary scale.
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2009-02-02 16:53
Dear Ashley; I just screwed up. "All the Things You Are" has these piano chords: Fm7 Bbm7 Eb7 AbM DbM7 for the first five measures and Dm7 G7 CM7 for the next three. So the first five measures are diatonic to the Ab major scale and the next three to the C major scale. So your piano player should write for the single note instrument like you: Ab X 5, C X 3, that's it for eight measures! It has the distinguishing features of the harmony. Then you do not have to play along by ear. I really like the change from Ab major to C major, up a major third like "Giant Steps" by Coltrane. Of course transpose up a step for the clarinet. Now you must know what to do around a particular major scale with the use of secondary scales to take off and return to the primary scale of the moment to make a sophisticated harmony of your own. E-mail me at: kenmillsusa@netscape.net for more ideas.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2009-02-02 17:19
The following suggestions may be of help:
1. Play fairly soft so that your playing does not obscure the changes.
2. Try using earphones when playing along with recordings.
3. Try playing along with the software "Band in a Box". The changes are a little easier to hear than some other play alongs. Some of the other backgrounds are determined to use extended changes, avoiding the basic chordal notes in order to sound "hip".
4. Try playing the thirds and sevenths along with the chords you hear.
Good luck!!
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2009-02-02 22:26
I learned how to play some progressions on the piano.
I didn't even know how to play piano. I figured out fingerings and chords by myself. It took a little time, but the result was so worth it.
If you take the time to do this, I guarantee your ears will open up WIDE.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2009-02-03 01:38
Ashley: if you have access to a keyboard doing as Jaysne writes will help a lot. You can perhaps avoid theworking out of chords for yourself with the help of a useful book titled "the encyclopedia of picture chords for keyboardists" by Amsco publicationsd. the ISBN is 0.8256.1503.8. then use the info to work out some tunes you already know (and like)
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