 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2009-01-08 15:36
Hello all
I've had a Bass for apporximately a month now, and I am really enjoying myself playing it.
However I am finding myself frustrated in the Clarion register. Anything above D (An octave above middle C) refuses to voice properly. With supreme effort I can get a harsh scratching note up to A but that's about it.
Have I underestimated the bass (I never thought it would be 'easy', I was aware that the clarion would be harder, but this is a pain) or should I look to some mechanical fault? What confuses me is that B, C, C# and D play fine (Possibly D#, I can't remember and my bass has been put away) but come E and it's feels like there's something not quite right.
I didn't struggle anywhere near as much as this when learing the clarion or altissimo registers on my Bb clarinet.
I have figured out a looser bottom embouchure helps with the bass and I am pleased with the sound that comes out in the lower register, Which makes me inclined to believe that there is something wrong. It was stripped and repadded by a specialist when I got it.
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Author: MichaelR
Date: 2009-01-08 16:53
Do you have a double register mechanism? If so observe how the two vents open/close with the register key and the G/D key open or closed.
I had the same problem with my new bass and it was in the keywork. Had that tweaked by the local repair folks (10 minutes and $10) and the clarion spoke right out.
I've found, to my great surprise that the upper clarion and altissimo are easier on the bass. Now I've got to learn the fingerings for notes I couldn't voice on a soprano clarinet. 
--
Michael of Portland, OR
Be Appropriate and Follow Your Curiosity
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-01-08 17:06
> However I am finding myself frustrated in the Clarion register. Anything
> above D (An octave above middle C) refuses to voice properly. With
> supreme effort I can get a harsh scratching note up to A but that's about it.
You mean from D5 and up? It shouldn't be that hard "down there"; I don't change my embouchure much to jump from G3 up to D5 - just the register key, that'd be it.
I had a similar problem once and found out that the Bb vent (situated beneath the register mechanism) was leaking a wee bit, or the adjustment screw got a bit loose so that it doesn't properly close anymore when you press the thumb plate.
--
Ben
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2009-01-09 16:15
"You mean from D5 and up? It shouldn't be that hard "down there"
Yes I do
"Do you have a double register mechanism? If so observe how the two vents open/close with the register key and the G/D key open or closed."
No, perhaps I should have mentioned I'm playing a bundy selmer bass.
What I really need to do is find someone who can play the bass and get them to tell me I'm not imagining it. I'll ask my teacher at some point in the next few weeks.
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2009-01-09 18:24
It's pretty simple -
register key on the neck = good high notes
no register key on the neck = bad high notes.
Bundys fall in the second category. They play just as well as a pro horn up to a 4th space Eb, but all the notes above that are yucky. Sorry, Charlie.
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2009-01-09 18:57
Surely there must be a difference between yucky and just plain not playing properly. I find it a little hard to believe that bundy would manufacture clarinets (Albiet student models) that simply don't play most of the clarion register, even poorly. Perhaps the design is exacerbating existing problems, but it just doesn't make sense that after a month of playing the register still will not play.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-01-09 19:14
FWIW I play an Artley (which is a Bundy stencil) and it plays just fine up to the top clarion B (above the staff), from then on it's a bit tricky indeed. I'd say up to A you should be fine although it requires a good reed/mpc/embouchure combination. If not (not even with slurring) then you have a leak somewhere.
--
Ben
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Author: BYUone
Date: 2009-01-09 20:38
without a teacher or someone knowledgeable to help you through the basics, the bass clarinet is not user friendly, especially the student models. My teacher had me get rid of the Yamaha 4c and Bundy 3 student MP. I am now using a refaced Selmer C* and VD #3 reed. The biggest jump was the BASS EMBOUCHURE, which is almost opposite the Bb soprano. Tighter on the low notes and looser on the higher notes.
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Author: Lynn
Date: 2009-01-09 21:29
Matthew......
I'm also a bass clarinet "newbie", making the switch about a year ago. I enlisted the help of a local professional (Austin Lyric Opera) bass player. Her story, which I've certainly found to be true, was to get to know a good bass clarinet tech because the instrument would need attention-major or minor-three or four times a year. Walter Grabner makes essentially the same statement on his website dealing with the difference between the small and large horns. If memory serves me Walter says every change of the season requires some adjustment to the horn.
Another major consideration to your comfort level in playing the large clarinet, I think, is to have a good setup that works for you. In my case I chose the Hawkins mouthpiece, Charles Bay ligature, and Van Doren #3 traditionals. Your mileage may vary.
I hope you'll be persistent in finding "your" setup and getting "your" instrument adjusted to "your" playing characteristics, and that you enjoy playing the bass clarinet as much as I do. It sounds like you're on the way. I would also urge you to not pay too much attention to the simplistic platitudes regarding where the register key resides, either. My Buffet 1180 doesn't have one on the neck and I can easily play the same clarion notes that I can play on my soprano instruments. (all the way to the "highest C) Voicing does become paramount, though, when playing in the upper range of the horn.
Best wishes and good luck playing the "Clarone."
Lynn McLarty
Austin, TX
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Author: blazian
Date: 2009-01-09 21:55
I may have said this before, but I have no problems whatsoever playing any notes on my two Bundy basses. My clarion isn't "thin" or "weak" like some people's. One problem I had in the past is that screws would randomly loosen and fall out.
I think it's not too important about the double register mechanism. Yes, it's helpful, but not necessary imho to have it. I play a Buffet 1180 like Lynn and I can play the entire range up to the high upper altissimo D (![[D7]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/d7.gif) ). The clarion E and F are a little harder, but they are still clear. I use a non-refaced C*and a medium hard Fibracell reed instead of the stock Bundy 3 and Vandorens.
- Martin
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-01-10 05:01
>> register key on the neck = good high notes
>> no register key on the neck = bad high notes.
Not exactly. It is true that in some (possibly most) cases a register key on the neck is better, but not always.
The first example is a single register key on the neck, with a seperate throat Bb vent on the body. It's essentially the same except the register key is on the neck, which isn't neceesarily better (could even be worse).
There are the double register bass clarinets with register keys, one on the neck (either automatic mechanism or not). This is usually good, but I've played instruments with this double register that played lousy in the clarion. OTOH there are instruments that play relatively very good in clarion in spite of not having this double register.
Another reason is that some people can just play the clarion better than others, almost regardless of instrument. I'm talking about something that is seperate from just practicing and improving, which (almost) anyone can do. Of course it's a physical difference in how they would play, and people can learn to change to blow better. But there is something, and I haven't yet figured out exactly what that something is, that makes some people better in that reange.
I know a player who sounds great on their excellent instrument, in all registers, and no one would think there is a problem in any range when he plays. But when he tries to play a student model with a single register the clarion range just wouldn't come out very good at all. Opposite there are some players, not even as good, who can play this range mostly easily on almost any instrument. For example a saxophonist, who doesn't even play clarinet (or bass clarinet), but can play this range pretty easily on any student bass he has tried.
I'm guessing there is a physical optimal condition to play this range, and some people (for physical reasons beyond their control) can't get as close to this optimal condition as others. I guess the same as, with the same amount of practice, some people have faster staccato than others.
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