 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2008-12-01 22:59
I own a yamaha 450 wooden clarinet, and have done for the last three years or so.
About a year ago, two large cracks appeared in the upper joint that extended from underneath the cork of top to about 1/3 down. These were filled by a repairman. They opened up soon after and I was told to keep an eye on them and mark with pencil, to see if they got any worse. A few months ago they opened up again, only much much worse. I took it back for repair and had the top of the joint banded and the cracks filled again. Because the cracks are moving down and do not extend to the top of the joint, the band has a limited function. I was told that there's not too much that can be done at this stage, other than keep an eye on it.
last week the cracks opened up again, this time one going through the Bb trill key tone hole. Where the cracks were filled it appears that it has been done with a glue that is stronger than the wood, so the grain has opened up in one or two places with smaller cracks parrallel to the large cracks.
I am getting fed up. Am I fighting a loosing battle? I can't afford a new instrument but it may not be worth it with the steady trickle of repair costs...
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-12-02 00:29
Alex poses a good question. if the cracks were filled on the first go, it does not necessarilly stop the cracks from continuing on. Metal pins are usually installed to maintain the structure of the wood from cracking. pinning is of uber importance in cracks larger than in inch.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Geirskogul
Date: 2008-12-02 03:49
Aah, but this could help give evidence one way or the other as to whether pins could/may help more/less than just filling. We must know: Was it pinned?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-12-02 04:47
>> Aah, but this could help give evidence one way or the other
>> as to whether pins could/may help more/less than just filling.
Not really. If it wasn't pinned, no one could know if pins would prevent the situation. Also, no one knows how good the repair was regardless of whether it was pinned or not.
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2008-12-02 16:34
No, it has never been pinned. To be honest, that's what I thought he would do, but he said that "Pinning is generally frowned upon" - He said he used to but in the long run it's not always best - I trusted his discretion. He is a reputable repairman in the North West of England.
The cracks were filled really to make changes really to make changes in the cracks easier to see. the question should have been, will this crack just keep on going? It's been over a year and they're slowly but surely getting bigger
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-12-02 16:50
Yamaha don't recommend pinning cracks in their most recent repair manual - only filling them in with superglue and finishing.
But I've pinned cracks and have seen pinned cracks that have stayed put for over 20 years provided they've been done well. I'd suggest you get it pinned and have the damaged toneholes bushed, but first find out how much a top joint transplant will be - if this is roughly the same cost as having the crack pinned and toneholes bushed, you may as well get a new top joint if there isn't much in it.
But as it's winter, it's not exactly the best time to play in a new top joint due to the temperature difference (indoors and out), low humidity, central heating and other seasonal factors that could only make a new joint crack.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2008-12-02 18:56
I would have hoped that this thread might end any debate over when to pin or whether to never pin a crack. No one knows whether this repair was done with any quality or integrity but if this repair person has a good rep in the area s/he probably has some experience.
I would have pinned the first crack to stabilize the area and then talked to the owner at length about how to care for the clarinet and try to prevent any other cracks or the original ones from getting worse. This is a method of repair that has been around for a long time and has a terrific reputation for long lasting results. I use "super glue" for small facial cracks that do not appear to be overly threatening to the joint but they need to be addressed, not major ones. Since this method of repair (pinning) has proven itself to be VERY reliable it's not frowned upon in my shop, neither are new ideas that seem to be a good, logical approach to a solid and long lasting repair.
I don't have the cost of a new joint in front of me but that might be a good way to go since this joint has undergone some radical stress, the inside bore could be changed enough that the clarinet will no longer play in tune.
Good luck Matt, I hope you can get your clarinet working once more.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2008-12-04 23:01
I sometimes see cracked clarinets on eBay at low, low prices. If you could find a Y450 with all the cracks in the barrel or lower joint you might could get a good top joint for not a lot of money........just a thought.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-12-06 03:23
Have you considered asking your dealer to see if Yamaha will sell you an upper joint for the model you own. If it's only a few years old it might work pretty good. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 Listen to a little Mozart, live performance
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-12-06 04:37
"Have you considered asking your dealer to see if Yamaha will sell you an upper joint for the model you own. "
At Windcraft in the UK, a top joint is about GBP190.
www.windcraft.co.uk
search for item number WYA1983
Post Edited (2008-12-06 05:17)
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Author: DHinson
Date: 2008-12-06 23:23
I have a good bit of experience with crack repair. Pins are and can be a useful tool...but I have seen very few cracks that can't be permanently repaired with super glue and wood dust. The most important variable is the quality of the repair. It is usually neccesary to open a crack further to repair it properly. A surface repair is likely a temporary fix, but when a crack is opened up and repaired in stages I can be confident in a permanent solution. Good Luck !
Donald Hinson
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-07 11:05
"The most important variable is the quality of the repair."
That's for sure.
There is a huge difference between filling the top fraction of a mm of a crack with something with poor adhesive qualities, and filling the ENTIRE depth of the crack with something with outstanding adhesive qualities. The latter is possible with very low-viscosity, high quality superglue, adding filler (in the form of grenadilla dust) only if the split is a very wide one. I know of no other adhesive capable of doing this.
Technique is important too:
1. If necessary, cleaning the oiliness from the timber with solvents.
2. Wicking the glue in so that it fills the ENTIRE crack from the very deepest narrow part, up to the top, open surface. (Some technicians cram the top of the crack with dry grenadilla dust, then apply superglue. This is a sure way to ensure that the glue does NOT penetrate far down into the crack.
More has been written on the topic in this thread:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=288408&t=288109
(A forum search will reveal many more threads.)
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