 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2008-11-14 15:54
At our community band practice this week the director told the clarinets to tune on third space C by pulling out the middle joint (between upper and lower joints) rather than using the barrrel. He said that works better on the mid-range notes. I had never heard this. Comments?
Leonard
Post Edited (2008-11-17 16:16)
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-11-14 16:17
the director is correct. you can also pull out the bell as well.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-11-14 16:29
All joints can help, starting with open G and barrel, then middle C and middle joint. Bell joint and mpc joint -- no experience.
richard smith
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-11-14 16:58
I prefer to tune to 3 Bs. First I play mid-staff B and adjust the barrel and mid-joint to match, to get my bearings. Then I play above-the-staff B and adjust the barrel, followed by below-the-staff and adjust the middle joint, after which I play mid-staff B again and adjust the bell to match. I never pull out at the mouthpiece.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: William
Date: 2008-11-15 14:46
Tune G4 first--pull barrel or mouthpiece if sharp; (if always flat, you need a shorter barrel) Tune C5 secondly--pull middle joint a bit if sharp. If still quite sharp, also pull bell joint. This proceedure will put the clarinet "in tune" with itself. As the instrument warms up during rehearsal or performance, it will go sharp and you may need to pull the mouthpiece or barrel joint a bit more (width of a dime or nickel).
If pulling the middle joint for C5 makes D5, E5 & F5 too flat relative to G5, then push the middle joint in a bit (or totally) and pull only the bell. It may be necessary to learn to lip C5 & B5 "down" a bit for optimum tuning, especially if E3 & F3 are made too flat by pulling middle and bell joints.
At best, no clarinet is perfectly in tune on all notes and it is necessary to practice with a tuner to discover which notes in which registers need to be lipped up or down to be within a couple of cents of "in tune". Your best tuning device is the one you were born with--your ear. As my good friend, Ginny, has said many times (in referrence to ensemble tuning) "Good intonation is good co-operation". It is much better to PLAY in tune rather than BE in tune.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-11-16 20:00
Third-space C is a good note to tune because it's hard to 'bend' with technique. If your instrument is in tune with itself, pulling the barrel to tune the 'C' should tune the entire instrument. In my experience the middle joint is pulled only if this doesn't cut the mustard.
Conversely, G4 is a poor note to use to tune the instrument as it's easy to 'lip' this throat note up and down. Also, in my experience the long 'B' (concert 'A') is a poor note as it tends not to be in tune with the rest of the instrument.
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2008-11-16 21:00
I tune the throat G (with right hand down)
Pull out/push in at barrel/upper joint
Tune the clarion G
Pull out/push in at upper joint/lower joint
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-11-17 03:40
"the director is correct."
true, for most clarinets and setups.
what is the effect of pulling the center joint on your instrument? what is the effect when cold, when warm, and when you are tired after a 2 hour rehearsal?
what is the effect on YOUR instrument, on your mouthpiece and reed, of puling the barrel? the bell? how about pulling the mouthpiece? how about switching to a softer reed, a harder one?
what happens when you play softly?
what happens when you play FFF?
the only way to answer these questions is via the use of a tuner, over many repetitions, over many weeks.... tuning to different notes, until you know what works best for your setup....
you need to know how YOUR instrument reponds to you, over varying condiitions....
think you have it figured out? try a different reed and test with a tuner again...
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2008-11-17 03:41)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2008-11-17 08:43
I usually do open G (pull out barrel), G above the staff (pull out middle joint), and C in the middle of the staff (pull out bell). That's usually pretty good IMO.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-11-17 09:31
And it's been said before, but playing to a tuner is only half the task - playing in tune with an ensemble requires additional work.
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2008-11-17 20:27
I was waiting for someone to mention the importance of lip position on tuning. I like to start with the throat G, but only to tune my lip, not the instrument. Then I go to the long C and adjust the barrel if necessary. I would adjust the other joints if needed, but generally don't.
James C. Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
"I play a little clarinet"
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-11-18 01:32
Bassie wrote:
<<And it's been said before, but playing to a tuner is only half the task - playing in tune with an ensemble requires additional work.>>
As does playing in tune with yourself (especially in altissimo-land). Playing clarinet with good intonation is all about adapting to the moment. (although it definitely helps to get your clarinet at least in the ballpark with the tuner, first)
Experimenting on your own with a tuner, like Paul suggested, is a good way to learn how to stay in tune after you've already "tuned the instrument." It's also a good way to learn which notes on your instrument have a tendency to go flat or sharp, because on clarinet every note has slightly different tuning characteristics. This can help you develop your ability to fix your own tuning problems as you play.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-11-18 14:44
Like I already posted, it's is more important to PLAY in tune that BE in tune (with the tuner). Use that tuner to help you adjust the barrel and joint sections so that your clarinet is in tune "with itself" and to learn which notes on your clarinet need to be individually adjusted with your embouchure or finger placement (venting)--then, discard the tuner and use your ears to play "in tune" with your ensemble.
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Author: malanr
Date: 2008-11-20 20:14
I must be spoiled, but if you cannot tune to one note and be in tune, then I would point you to a new clarinet.
My clarinet plays so in tune I never had to adjust the barrel or middle tennon.
I would think that if one note is in tune and another is out, then you either have mouthpiece, barrel, or reed issues; or the manufacture of the horn is not very good.
what are your thoughts about this?
Just another muscian
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-08-05 17:46
Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd resurrect this from the archive...
I have recently noticed that my instrument seems more in tune with itself if I pull out a little at the bell. This has an effect on the B/E and a subtle effect on the C/F. Then to tune the C I don't pull out as far at the barrel. The end result is a slightly sharper (few cents) mid-section of the instrument, clarion F, G, etc. Bottom E and F are slightly (and evenly) flat but this doesn't appear to matter.
Is this a common sort of thing among the folks out there? Or a sign of slowly drifting adjustment? The clarion F's felt flat for ages, and I can't quite see how that's a matter of pad clearances, unless absolutely everything else is out due to simple ageing of pads & such.
On a more philosophical note, presumably (good) instrument makers allow a bit of wiggle-room in all their joint lengths to allow everyone to get the instrument in tune. Or is this not the case?...
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-06 03:20
You received many correct answers here. Try to remember, the basic principal is that if you pull out the bell it will effect the bell tones the most, low E, break B and very slightly the notes just above those but only slightly. Pulling out the middle joint will effect everything below that joint, it will also effect the notes immediately above that joint, the C-G, C#-G# etc. Pulling out the barrel will effect everything but will effect the notes closest to the barrel than all the others. In other word, it will effect your throat tones the most and the "bell" tones the least but it will have some effect on everything. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-08-06 04:38
Fresh from last weeks lessons:
Keep the mouthpiece fully inserted into the barrel upper socket.
Use the lower end of the tuning barrel to tune your open G.
Pull the middle joint to get B3 in tune --using the sliver key + forefinger "forked" fingering.
Check C5 and compromise the center joint as makes sense.
Bob Phillips
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Author: lrooff
Date: 2009-08-06 14:45
An issue which has not been addressed in this thread is that of joint stress. Let's look at it from a mechanical engineering standpoint rather than just as a tuning question... The middle tenon on the clarinet is the one which undergoes the most stress because of its location. If you have to slide the joint apart, it places all the load on the tenon itself, rather than the stress being partly supported by the shoulders of the joint as when they're in actual contact. Meanwhile, the tenon is supporting the weight of the lower joint and bell, with the fulcrum point being just below it at the thumb rest. That's why repair shops see far more clarinets with broken tenons in the middle of the horn than at either end.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-08-08 17:49
lrooff said:
"Meanwhile, the tenon is supporting the weight of the lower joint and bell, with the fulcrum point being just below it at the thumb rest. That's why repair shops see far more clarinets with broken tenons in the middle of the horn than at either end."
Question:
Are you sure about this statistic? What is your source?
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com/forsale.com
Used Buffet Clarinets
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-08-08 21:50
As a one man repair shop over the years I have repaired quite a few broken centre tenons, only about 2-3 bell tenons and not to-date a single top tenon.
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