 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2008-11-09 20:56
Hello, Clarinet BB!
I'm an A Level student in the North-West of England, the only woodwind I play is the Bb Clarinet, and I'm looking to move onto the bass, having fallen in love with the instrument a few months ago and having a play on a truly battered specimen of my teacher's.
I've been looking around, and to tell the truth I know nothing of the different brands - I only know which ones to avoid (Like Parrot and Venus, Jazz and other strange chinese imports) and that the wooden Yamaha I have at the moment plays well enough for my needs. The fact that there are many many models of clarinet, not just clarinet makers is a new concept to me, having just played the instrument I was given without questions!
The problem is that on my measly part time wage, and saving for university next year, I have a maximum of £500 to spend - half the price of the cheapest brand new bass I can find from a reliable store in the south of England, and I can't find anything for that money, nor would I know what would be wise to spend it on.
I've tried trying to buy through my local council, or at least borrow - They only have two basses and they're both out on loan for at least the next two years and their price list of new bass clarinets - even minus the 17.5% VAT I am eligible for on new instruments bought through them, are still past my range
My criteria is a basic student model, reliable. Cosmetic damage is no problem at all, or a scruffy case as I'm sure most would agree this doesn't matter in the slightest, second hand preferred, probably required as this will knock a few more quid off. I will settle for average-average-average, as long as it works WELL, but even when presented with one in my price range, I don't know the brands, and I wont trust eBay due to past dodgy experience!
In conclusion -
What models would suit my needs described above?
Where would be the best places to look?
And, perhaps most importantly, Am I being too optimistic?
I had a look in the classifieds section here, I could only find two basses (Unless I'm using it wrong, quite probable) both in the US, too far from here!
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Author: davidsampson
Date: 2008-11-09 21:02
Selmer 1430P, Bundy, Yamaha YCL221, Jupiter, and the Vito, leblanc 7166 or Noblet 60.
Look at the classifieds here, or try an online classified site.
And yes, I think you are probably too optimistic.
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2008-11-09 21:22
Thank you for the tips!
Much appreciated, I have somewhere to work from now!
Preliminary searches show that the cheapest NEW bass from that list is the JCL-673N at £800-£1000
I had no luck looking for budget Selmers in the UK, or Leblanc from any vendors or through google.
There's a Vito selling on ebay for £750, but with only one sentence of desciption, I think not!
I may be in luck if I can find a second hand Jupiter of the model above. I'll turn my attention to Classified sites, can any be recommended as particularly reliable, safe or lucrative?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-11-09 21:41
Have you applied for a grant to get a bass with?
There are several trusts that are music specific (eg. Prince's Trust, Musicians' Benevolent Trust, etc.) and as you are already planning to go to University, that will probably help too. Ask at your County Hall or library about these.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2008-11-09 21:54
I did consider grants, but this is tricky ground because although I am a competant musician, I am no means considered 'Young Talent' (Not on the clarinet, my second instrument) therefore would not be eligible for many of the talent based awards. Also, I am not eligible for support from organisations similar to the princes trust (I reckon the P.T. is similar)In that, theoretically my parents could pay for the instrument.
They wont. As I mentioned above, in the Salford area if I take lessons with the Salford Music Service and buy an instrument through them, I do not pay the 17.5% tax, but their instrument list is still very steep.
I shall keep on researching!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-11-09 23:39
Hmm, I've bought an Artley and a Bundy bass via That Auction Site Whose Name Shall Not Be Mentioned; with the usual precautions there shouldn't be any nasty surprises. None was over 300$. Both needed cleaning, but otherwise I had no issues.
Takes some perseverance to win one, but they can be easily resold here for three times their winning price.
--
Ben
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-11-10 06:56
You will need to go second hand and I suggest you ask your teacher to guide you when a specimen comes up within your price range. I presume you are not prepared to sell the B flat to finance the bass.....
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-11-10 07:41
Contact a guy on the clarinet board named Dave Spiegethal. (sorry if i mispelled your name) I believe he has some bass clarinets that might fit your bill.
you can go the (online auction route) however the bass clarinets that end up on that site are usually in more significant repairs.
Kohlert Bass clarinets are highly reputable if you can find them. Selmer also makes some very fine bass clarinets as well. The best is still Buffet, though at $5k minimum, they're very pricey.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-11-10 13:45
I would suggest waiting until you have sufficient funds to buy a good bass clarinet. Although the bass clarinet is a great instrument, it isn't much fun playing a bad one. You can't expect to find a great bass clarinet for 10% of what they usually cost unless you are very lucky. I don't know how often you will need a bass but perhaps you should check out players who might let you rent their bass for short periods during the year.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: William
Date: 2008-11-10 14:52
Maybe the university you choose will have a pro level bass clarinet that you could use. You may wish to "wait and see"........
Otherwise, I completely agree with Arnoldstang, there is nothing like having the very best. In the meantime, work on perfecting your Bb skills. Also, perhaps your first priority should be acquiring a good A clarinet so that you can pursue orchestral positions. The bass can probably wait until then.
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2008-11-10 20:49
William and Arnoldstang, I don't want to put you under the impression that I am going to study Music at university - I intended to study Classical Civilisations, nor am I pursuing any positions in an Orchestra. I am a member of the local youth orchestra and college Jazz band - that's fine for me! Let me reiterate that although I am by no means a beginner, I have no professional aspirations and play purely for pleasure in an amateur capacity - Hence my current clarinet being a serviceable intermediate model.
I am not expecting to find a great clarinet for 10% of the asking price, I am asking to find a playable clarinet second hand for 50% of the brand new price of the student models, that is 50% of £900-£1200.
I'm going to see my teacher tomorrow for some advice, and some more information on the workings of the local music service. I have no real time-scale for obtaining one, but preferably before June next year when our orchestra goes to Paris.
I have a feeling that Bass Clarinets are more often found on a certain auction site in the states than over here - There are rarely more than 5 on the go at a time.
The research continues!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-11-10 21:08
Matthew Moran wrote:
> I have a feeling that Bass Clarinets are more often found on a
> certain auction site in the states than over here - There are
> rarely more than 5 on the go at a time.
Guess where I got mine from...
--
Ben
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2008-11-10 21:41
I'm not sure - The US? Or were you being ironic and mean the UK? :P
Is it wise to ship from the US? I would not feel comfortable sending such delicate, large, sensitive and expensive packages so far over such a long period of time.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-11-10 21:58
No, I had them shipped from the US. No bigger risk than shipping them from around the corner if the stuff is packaged well. Sent insured with tracking number and all, and since USPS ditched "economy", it's more expensive (some $100 for a bass) but it's there within a week.
When I look at my Bundy bass, "delicate" isn't the first word that comes to mind...and after any kind of shipping an instrument is due for a quick inspection at your favourite repair person.
The calculation is simple: 350$ for a bass, 100$ for shipment, 7.5% VAT, that's roughly 500$ all in all, versus 1000$ for a used instrument in similar condition bought locally.
--
Ben
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Author: William
Date: 2008-11-11 15:25
OK, unless you find a bass clarinet with a double octave mechanizm which enables the higher registers to play more efficiently, you can't do much better than a Selmer Bundy Resonite bass, new or used. Having had personal playing and teaching experiance with both Vito and Bundy basses, the latter always out performed the former in quality of sound, response and intonation. However, neither plays like my own personal Buffet Prestige low C bass clarinet--not even close. Like switching from a Ford to Cadillac. They will both get you "there", but with the Caddie, the ride will be more enjoyable.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-11-11 21:14
-- "Is it wise to ship from the US? I would not feel comfortable sending such delicate, large, sensitive and expensive packages so far over such a long period of time." --
Most of my clarinets came from the USA and I rarely buy accessories from anywhere else. All french clarinets as well! Never had a problem apart from one Noblet 45 that was held up at customs because somebody obviously thought it was something incredibly illegal or dangerous! A simple polite letter sorted that out.
I'm intensely jealous of my wife who is presently in Washington for a conference and who has a 'shopping list' for the kids' Christmas presents.
I did mention 'clarinets', but the look she gave me....! ;-)
Steve
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2008-11-11 21:55
I would second the shipping from USA.
I bought a Leblanc L400 for £150. I took it apart and cleaned all the keys up myself, and so easing all the stuck screws too (it was in a real state, there was straw in the box....). It was the first time I had ever taken an instrument apart. I did it in sections because I was sure I would not be able to put it back together again otherwise and I thought the best way of being sure I gave the tech all the pieces was if it they were attached to the instrument!
I sent the neck to an industrial plater and had it re-silver plated (£15).
The repad and regulation cost £200 (it would have been more if it I had left all the taking apart and cleaning to him)
I bought a cheap case (again from USA WWBW)
Don't get me wrong, buying from Ebay is always a gamble - just sometimes it pays off. This time I got a Leblanc wooden bass clarinet for just over £400. I may not be so lucky next time...
Chris
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Author: Pathik
Date: 2008-11-13 10:39
Matthew,
Have you considered this:
http://www.johnpacker.co.uk/instruments/101568.htm
I haven't tried it myself, so can't say what it's like, but it's got a good review from Leslie Craven, and it's certainly very affordable.
I bought a low C Lyrique bass clarinet from Tom Ridenour about six months ago, and I am really very pleased with it. I did have some initial problems with it, but that was only because it had been damaged in transit. The repair job cost only £30, which certainly was money well spent. This is a really beautiful instrument which is an absolute joy to play, and other people do comment on its great sound. Tom Ridenour also makes a low E flat bass clarinet, probably also very good. His web site is at http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/index.html
Best of luck in your search.
Pathik
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-11-13 10:52
--"Have you considered this:
http://www.johnpacker.co.uk/instruments/101568.htm
I haven't tried it myself, so can't say what it's like, but it's got a good review from Leslie Craven, and it's certainly very affordable." --
Please do NOT even consider a Packer own brand! I have experienced one of their oboes and the subject has been discussed both privately and on the ABRSM forum. By the way the oboe also had a good review.
They are a reputable dealer and sell a lot of great well known brands, but the JP brand are chinese imports that look nice and even sound okay... at first.
Screws that are too loose, too tight etc. Impossible to regulate. A rough bore that channels moisture straight to the tone holes. Soft keys that bend too easily.
The advice I always give is that if you must buy their own brand, make sure that every single screw turns and oil them. Then play it as much as possible during the trial period.
I did get a spare part from them once and the guy was very open about the problems they have, but the bottom line was 'What do you expect for the money?'
Steve
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2008-11-14 15:07
Thanks for all the advice, definately can't borrow a bass through the local council, I double checked and came back with a firm no.
The plan of action seems to be keeping my eyes out for a decent clarinet on ebay US - I'll write back with any developments. I'm just a little worried that I'll buy one that sounds fine, the seller knows what they're talking about, and it'll arrive with unmentioned problems that cost more than the instrument is worth to repair it.
But if I don't chance it they'll be no bass for me!
Matthew.
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2008-11-15 18:55
Hello all,
I took the plunge and bought a bass in the US. It is a Bundy-Selmer single body plastic model for $275 - That's about £185 plus £35 P&P
This leaves me with quite a lot for in the budget for servicing/repairs, which it will almost certainly need. This is not as much value for money as, for example, Chris J's LeBlanc but from his description it seemed to be in a sorry state! Either way though, £185 is nothing compared to the £1000 I would be paying for a new one.
This purchase was a definate risk - "It is in good condition otherwise, although it may require some servicing, it's been a few years since I've played it.It comes with the orginal hardcase, but it has seen better days, it's still functional"
Anyway, wish me luck, as luck is what it will come down to in the end.
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Author: Matthew Moran
Date: 2008-11-15 19:32
Reading that again, I realise that when he says "Seen better days" He could mean the case. Let's hope so
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-11-15 20:57
You may be charged import duty and VAT when it arrives at UK Customs, so expect to fork out around another £40-50.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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