 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: na1965
Date: 2008-11-07 02:14
I recently acquired a Leblanc/Backun Legacy and I am really pleased with it. I am however experiencing an intermittent problem that I can't solve. Occaisionally while playing, middle B and C (and to a lesser extent low E and F) will not speak or will be very stuffy. When this problem occurs, I encounter sigificant resistence, almost like blowing into a stopped pipe. All other notes speak perfectly when this problem occurs and the problem will go away as quickly as it appears. I have tried several different mouthpiece/reed combinations but this has not made any difference. I took the clarinet to a local technician who leak tested the instrument and checked the seating of the relevant pads but he did not find a problem. I tried calling Morrie Backun for advice, but he apparently is traveling until the middle of November. I would appreciate any advice on what could be causing this problem and how to solve it.
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Author: hans
Date: 2008-11-07 02:35
This problem could be a symptom of a bridge that is not properly aligned.
Hans
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-11-07 02:51
hans wrote:
> This problem could be a symptom of a bridge that is not
> properly aligned.
> Hans
Really? It sounds like he's talking about bell B and the lowest E on the instrument (where all the fingers are down, both hands), so I have trouble imagining how a misaligned bridge would cause problems with those notes.
Are you thinking about the other E and B (in the left hand) or is there something I don't understand about how this works? (Because if there is, I want to learn! )
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Author: autumnsilence
Date: 2008-11-07 04:23
i had a similar problem recently but more notes were affected and i couldnt figure out why. Turns out it was the Throat A/G# screw, (as Arnoldstang suggested), but then again when i checked mine for leaks, there was one... (because of screw)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-11-07 05:27
Some more possibilities:
Is it possible that when reaching to the F/C and E/B keys on the right side you are not sealing one of the other tone hole completely (especially the right hand third finger)?
Maybe you accidently press a key when playing those notes?
Maybe the bridge isn't adjusted, but just enough that only when you press the right pinky keys you lose a bit of the force necessary for the right hand rings keys?
Maybe a key doesn't move smoothly, but only sometimes doesn't close completely? Maybe the F#/C# key, which then gets hit again by the linkage and is closed completely?
Maybe the clarinet is built in a way that the rod screw for the F/C and G#/D# keys is coming out of its end and touches the part of the F#/C# key that connects to the lever and prevents it from closing completely (some clarinet have a cut in the key to prevent that)?
Did it ever happen on a nother clarinet or only on this one? If the latter, most likely a problem with the instrument but maybe the layout is different to make you press or not seal, etc.
There are other possibilities too.
When this happens try to imediately stop and don't move your fingers. If you imediately move the clarinet to see what's wrong it's possible you accidently fix the problem, especailly if it's something like my fourth suggestion. Then Then try very carefully moving only certain parts to try to narrow it down. Try just slightly (and slowly) move the F/C key, etc. and see if you find something.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-11-07 05:46
sometimes when the bridge key cork is too thick, the key hole doesn't close, thus affecting ALL of the notes on the right hand. this would be a good time to learn how to test the seals of your clarinet yourself. Plug the end of the joints with your palm or knee, cover all the holes, and proceed to blow through. if you hear a leak, you've found your culprit.
give it a shot. learning how to maintain your instrument is a priceless yet a necessity for any musician.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-11-07 07:06
I have to say that this sounds to me like a very commonly-encountered problem, and I'm surprised nobody has said what I'm about to say.
I think the third-lowest tonehole (the one that closes for C# and below) isn't sealing properly. This commonly happens when the crowsfoot gets out of adjustment. The symptom is that middle-of-stave B sounds properly when you use both little fingers (one on a B key, one on a C key) but fails to sound when you close only the B key and rely on the crowsfoot to close the C key.
I admit that this explanation doesn't account satisfactorily for the failure to sound C, but it's still the first thing I'd look at.
Play B, being very careful that your thumb and fingers aren't allowing air to leak from the holes they cover directly. If the note doesn't sound properly, get someone to press on the third-lowest pad to encourage it to seal completely.
Does the note sound when they press the pad?
If not, get them to press each of the other pads in turn. It has pretty much got to be a leaking pad - there's no other likely explanation - and this is the easiest way to find it.
If you find which pad is causing the problem, then it remains to determine whether:
- the pad is defective
- the tonehole is uneven
- the mechanism is out of adjustment, as I suspect
- your finger technique isn't up to scratch.
Post Edited (2008-11-07 07:07)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-11-07 07:35
>> I'm surprised nobody has said what I'm about to say.
>> I admit that this explanation doesn't account
>> satisfactorily for the failure to sound C
This is why
Another idea is that the F/C key pad doesn't completely seal the tone hole, and only when pressing harder it will seal. Though that would probably make the C# a bit stuffy too. It's possible that what Norbert suggests is happening anyway but like he said that only solves a problem with B and not C.
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-11-07 09:38
Thinking about this again, I suspect the C# pad (the second-lowest one) is leaking. This pad should be open for C# (and low F#, of course) and closed for all other notes.
However, a leak will have no effect other than on B and C (and low E and F).
The simplest test is just the same - get someone to press the pad for you as you try but fail to play B.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-11-07 10:32
I have encountered this problem a couple times before.
It usually happened when there is a key that was not closing properly. The pad seals (whichever one it is, I have no idea without seeing the instrument), but sometimes you will push the key and when you release it, it does not close completely. In most cases (when it happened to me) the problem was a spring that was rubbing against something it should not have been.
An easy way to find the problem (if this is your problem) is- Play the middle B and C a few times to be sure it responds properly. Then, push the C# key and SLOWLY lift it. Try to play the B again. Does it work? If not, the C# key has a mechanical problem somewhere and is not closing properly.
If yes, that key was not the problem. Next- Push the D# key and SLOWLY release release it. Try to play the B again. Did it work?
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Do this until you have found the point that it no longer plays. That will be the key that does not close.
It will always be one of the pads that is CLOSED when you do not touch it.
hope this helps-
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Author: hepcat127
Date: 2008-12-16 21:39
I was just having this same problem, the middle b and c weren't sounding right but the low e and f were fine for some reason. I tried what skygardener suggested with the c# key and i thought that was it and bent the key a little bit and that seemed to fix it temporarily but then it went back to being stuffy. something has to be out of alignment though, i wish i knew what fixed it for that short while.
Post Edited (2008-12-16 22:00)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-12-17 10:56
Have you tried adjusting the link key on the F/C cup? This will see if the E/B cup is sealing. If it is not then it throws ou the F/C also.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-12-17 11:51
"When this problem occurs, I encounter sigificant resistence, almost like blowing into a stopped pipe. "
Are you missing a tube of cork grease? :P
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Author: huff n' puff
Date: 2008-12-17 15:50
Hi, particularly Arnoldstang and Autumnsilence,
Your comments reminded me of the time when in the middle of a public (thankfully casual and mostly friends) performance, my entire chalumeau register disappeared!
Yip, the screw had wandered round and the G# was acting as a vent. I have never been so glad to be able to think "on the hoof" about this kind of thing. A quick flick of a fingernail, an apologetic explanation to the assembly and off we went.
I now ALWAYS check this screw before playing anywhere, and feel that all beginners should be made aware of this possible catastrophe.
All the best....... H&P
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2008-12-17 17:04
By now you'll have probably had some contact with Morrie Backun and maybe solved the problem. But the key would seem to be that this problem is intermittent. Badly seated pads, bent keys and the like usually cause a continuing problem until you find and fix them.
Two things that can cause very intermittent problems that can drive you absolutely nuts are fingers that for some reason aren't covering their holes each time you play the note or water somewhere it doesn't belong.
If you're not hitting a tone hole cleanly (could be because the positions of the holes on the new clarinet are different from what you're used to) you can try to stop - freeze - as soon as you encounter a problem and then carefully re-position one suspect finger at a time (without moving anything else) to see if you can get the note to pop out. You can probably work out which suspects to try first - each 4th (ring) finger, the left hand thumb, left hand first finger. If none of those is the problem, then go on to less likely ones. Even if you find that one finger wasn't covering that one time, it may be that different fingers are involved in different fingering contexts, so you may have to work this out passage by passage - if it's the problem at all.
Water can cause all sorts of problems that are hard to detect at a shop because the problems only come up after several minutes of playing. While no pads may be leaking, one of them in the area of the B/E and C/F may have a small tear or hole in it. It may not leak when it's dry, but once a little water gets into the felt as you play, it can swell the pad enough to interfere with its ability to seat. Has anyone actually taken the keys off to check the pad surfaces, or have you just checked for seal with the keys in place? A feeler around the pad won't detect this, nor will closing the holes and blowing or sucking through the instrument. Even a vacuum gauge might miss it if there's no external opening in the pad where air could get through. This kind of problem would tend to stay once it appears until the pad has dried a little.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-12-18 09:50
Sometimes fingers wander too and hit keys they shouldn't.
Bob Draznik
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