 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-27 08:52
Why do most performances of Mahler 6 have the 2nd and 3rd movements swapped round giving the performance order of 1-3-2-4?
I've got the 1995 recording by the Vienna Phil/Boulez, and the order is:
1 - Allegro energetico, ma non troppo
2 - Scherzo. Wuchtig
3 - Andante
4 - Finale. Allegro moderato - Allegro energetico
Though the score and parts have the Andante and Scherzo movements in their usual place in bog-standard symphonic form - Andante being the 2nd and the Scherzo as the 3rd movements.
Looking at the timings, it wouldn't have been done to fit the symphony on an LP (33rpm) as the timings are:
1 - 23:06 (Allegro energetico, ma non troppo)
2 - 12:19 (Scherzo. Wuchtig)
3 - 14:47 (Andante)
4 - 29:10 (Finale. Allegro moderato - Allegro energetico)
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-10-27 11:54
That's just the way it's often done. Shortly before the premier of the 6th Symphony, Mahler switched the order to what you currently hear on the recordings. It was nothing more than a last-minute aesthetic decision.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-27 12:30
Makes you wonder why the publishers haven't (in all that time) printed the score and parts in that order.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Richard Ashmore
Date: 2008-10-27 12:59
In his rendition of Mahler 6, Benjamin Zander spends some time discussing this on the CD that has the lecture about the piece.
It's worth listening to-
Richard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-27 15:00
Mind you, Beethoven 9 has a slow 3rd movement, as does Rach 2 - but the published parts on these are in the correct order.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-10-28 23:01)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-10-27 18:00
Chris P wrote:
>> Makes you wonder why the publishers haven't (in all that time) printed the score and parts in that order.
I wonder about why publishers haven't done a LOT of things in all that time. Like print treble clef bass clarinet parts for everything.
My guess is that people will buy the music regardless of what order the movements are in, so they think, "Why bother?"
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: brycon
Date: 2008-10-27 19:32
Other Mahler symphonies have the scherzo preceding the slow movement as well- I believe 3, 4, and 5 do.
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-10-28 14:30
Another thing about Mahler 6. It uses bass clarinet in A as well as B Flat. It sometimes changes to A when the clarinets do, and for the same reason. Perhaps you cannot squabble with it being printed in A in that case. But then there are the cases where it goes into A because the phrase goes down to a written E, which would be below the range of a B flat bass, if the bass had no low E flat note. In Mahler's time it was perhaps the case that there were many B flat basses that only went to E, but a good supply of A pitched basses that went down to E (I don't know, I am just conjecturing). But it is now a very long time indeed since a B flat bass has been sold without a low E flat. It is comical that the publisher has not changed it, since Mahler would have written it in B flat had he realised the instrument would go down to E Flat.
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-10-28 17:42
I guess the publishers see their duty as being to perpetuate the order of the movements as in the last score authorised by Mahler. Presumably he never told the publishers to reprint the score with the order of the movements changed.
I don't doubt Mahler did lots of more subtle things in performance that disagreed with the score. You wouldn't expect the publishers to say "He wrote such-and-such a chord forte in the score, but at the performance we went to he conducted it piano. I guess we'd better mark it as piano in the next edition."
...........
Mahler's "day job" was as an opera conductor. Opera conductors are notorious (though maybe less now than in the past) for making cuts and rearrangements to suit the circumstances of particular performances. I have no idea - but it would be interesting to know - whether Mahler was faithful to the scores of the operas he conducted.
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