 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-13 16:47
Before I go any further, is it wise to immerse Greenline joints in warm soapy water to clean them (as I normally do with plastic clarinets)?
Don't worry - I don't do this to wooden clarinets!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-10-13 16:51)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-10-13 17:44
I can't imagine that it would cause any harm to the Greenline material. In fact, when I got a set of 1908 Buffets, encrusted with crud, I sent them to Peter Spriggs, who told me he stripped off the keys and scrubbed the wood in a sink full of soapy water.
Ken Shaw
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Author: jeeves
Date: 2008-10-14 00:03
Greenline contains 95% grenadilla scraps, so..... It's not all resin; therefore, not soaking it is most likely the best coarse of action.
Jeeves
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-10-14 00:47
I would tend to agree with jeeves, it is wood and things happen to wood when it gets wet, especially soaked, more than from simply playing it. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 Listen to a little Mozart
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-10-14 03:35
From an empirical point of view it is impossible to have >50% (probably much less) Grenadilla shavings or dust and get enough resin to completely soak the wood particles and fill the spaces between them so it is mostly resin and much less wood - plus the amount taken up by carbon fiber reinforcement. So it is more like plastic than wood - no matter what the Buffet marketing literature may state !!!
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-10-14 06:17
I don't think any clarinet needs to be immersed in soapy water, since that doesn't clean it better, but there is no problem washing even a wood clarinet with soapy water, or even immersing it for a while. Considering how slowly water is soaked into grenadilla, and that dry wood is the problem, not wet, there is just no problem. When I wash any clarinet, I have a small tub with soapy water, and occasionally I'll dip the clarinet in it to wash most of the soap, but the washing itself is done outside of this tub (because it's more comfortable and you can see what you are doing), and obviously washing the soap out of it too.
>> it is wood and things happen to wood when it gets wet, especially soaked,
What things? The only thing I can possibly think of is mold but that's not a problem if you dry it afterwards and don't leave it wet in a case, etc. Or it will turn a bit lighter in colour but then oiling it will get it back the darker colour. The wood clarinet won't be soaked even if you submerge it in water, unless you do it for a long time (absurdly longer than what it would take to wash it). Have you seen a growing (wet) tree split like a clarinet? Only dry wood splits.
Nitai
Post Edited (2008-10-14 10:46)
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-10-14 16:05
"Only dry wood splits."
yup. so pretty much, you shouldn't have a problem. wash away
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2008-10-14 18:09
Chirs,
shortly after Francois Kloc joined the Buffet company he came to visit and we had a very nice chat about clarinets, wood, oiling the wood, and the new green line clarinets. Either our salesman or he bragged "go ahead and soak it in water over night and then put it in the freezer, take it out the next day and and it will play like it was new."
I never tried it but and I'll assume that was just a little brag about their new line. My vote would be to go ahead and wash it. Let me know ifyou run into anything odd.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-14 19:50
As Greenline is a composite material, I can't honestly see any harm in washing it in the same manner as I would normally wash, rinse and dry the joints on a plastic clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: hans
Date: 2008-10-14 20:58
Wood cracks typically occur along the grain. Greenlines don't have grain, but there's always Murphy's Law to consider........
Hans
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-14 21:34
Yeah, that's when they get dropped and the middle tenon snaps off.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jeeves
Date: 2008-10-14 23:37
With regards to the comments about soaking a normal grenadilla, wouldn't that cause warpage???
Jeeves
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-10-15 04:02
>> With regards to the comments about soaking a normal
>> grenadilla, wouldn't that cause warpage???
Soaking means the water is soaked into the wood. If you wash a wood clarinet with soap and water, the water won't soak into the wood unless you leave the clarinet in the water a very long time (days? maybe more?). There is a big difference between washing a wood clarinet with water and soaking it with water. If you actually meant the former in your question, then soaking the wood just isn't a problem because it doesn't happen.
Post Edited (2008-10-15 04:56)
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-10-15 04:53
i scrub old wood ones in murphy's oil soap, and rinse in tap water all the time.
dry, and treat with the dr's bore oil
i haven't killed one yet...
we get them dripping wet every day on the inside when we play them - a little water won't hurt
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-15 10:15
I think it's heat cast.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-10-18 16:09
Washing Greenline brings to mind a sixth grade beginning student who proudly came in one morning and said that she had washed her clarinet. Apparently, she had paid too much attention to the brass part of our instrument maintainance presentation the day before during which bathing trombones and trumpets in the bathtub was explained in detail to the band class. Surprisingly, in spite of the full immersion of the clarinet in warm soapy bath water the night before, the dired out Bundy Resonite still played--although some of the keys required a little extra pressure. Kind of like that Timex commercial--Bundy's take a dippin but keep on (well, nothing rhymes very well this am)
We now take a little extra time with our maintianance presentations......
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-10-19 20:55
Wow....lots of questionable "facts" here but thanks to Omar for a real fact.
What the heck does heat cast mean! Epoxy composites (which is what I call Greenline) are molded. And, although Greenline may not have a "grain" exactly like wood does there's no proof that it can't have longitudinal weakness at least occasonally. Yes, I've seen wet wood crack longitudinally ...and warp too.
Evidently "soak" means different things to different people. Murphy's Oil soap was invented by an Irish Catholic woman for washing wood church pews...fact or fiction?
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-19 21:11
Where are the carbon fibre reinforcements?
I can tell you where they aren't - the middle tenon!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: patrickryan04
Date: 2008-10-21 02:00
Has anyone ever placed a wood clarinet in a freezer to get a joint "un-stuck" from the other joint?
1st Armored Division Band
Clarinetist
Dixie Band
Woodwind Quintet
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-10-21 02:44
no but i'd love to see the claim that a greenline can be put into a freezer and played thereafter. that's pretty ambitious.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-21 04:32
If the Greenline is considered to be an instrument built to withstand harsh climatic conditions, then why not have stainless steel springs fitted on these so they don't rust?
A thought on the middle tenon (which is the weakest point on all clarinets) - how about fitting a metal sleeve on the inside to strengthen it?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-10-21 05:34
>> Has anyone ever placed a wood clarinet in a freezer
>> to get a joint "un-stuck" from the other joint?
I'm not sure if it was the freezer or the fridge but several people around the forums said they have. I put a clarinet in the fridge once and it helped.
>> i'd love to see the claim that a greenline can be put into
>> a freezer and played thereafter. that's pretty ambitious
There is a film on DVD from Buffet (and it's a very good film too IMO) which is a documentry about one French player (I forgot his name) who travels to the top of the highest mountain in France (or maybe it's the highest in Europe) and plays his Greenline clarinet at the top, about -20C.
Hey Bob, I guess you're right. Once in a red moon a wet clarinet/wood will crack. I haven't seen it but I believe you. Still if you wash a clarinet it will not be soaked! I can't think of a reason to leave the clarinet in the water for long enough time for that to happen. When I wash a clarinet, it's only in the small bath of soapy water for very little time, only to wash most of the soap away fast before washing it all off with the shower. It's washed with water for only a few minutes, and inside a bath for a few seconds. I think more water will soak when playing for 30 minutes.
Post Edited (2008-10-21 12:14)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-10-21 10:47
"What the heck does heat cast mean!"
I use this term to represent things that are put into their shape with heat and harden when cooled if you heated it again, it would become liquid again- eg. the plastic that your computer is made of. My usage of "chemical cast" is something that has a chemical process to make it hard- eg. 2 part epoxy.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-10-21 11:40
But,Sky, these are not generally recognized or underestood materials processing terms and your definitions are,perhaps, ambiguous. In my experience the terms "cast" and "casting" are common to metals and clays (and fishing) and the former involves heat while the latter doesn't. My impression(not experience) is that Greenline material is poured into appropriately shaped molds and subsequently machined after curing.....all without using external heat.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Jexas
Date: 2008-10-21 19:31
Ok this is probably going to sound really dumb and expose me for newbie I really am but what the heck is greenline? How do you identify it?
Thanks for your patience
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-23 21:02
One thing I did notice is the surface colour had lightened after washing and drying.
The bell looks like it's made of sedimentary rock or like those souvenir bottles of coloured sand from the Isle of Wight (that's UK, not VA) with all the slightly different coloured layers it's made from.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jeeves
Date: 2008-10-23 21:26
Some of the stain/color probably washed off. I heard for the grenadillas that they dye some of the lighter wood to make it look darker. Maybe 'tis something like that.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-23 21:30
I noticed it more when drying the bell as the dye came off and onto the towel. It was both red and the usual purple dye.
I didn't think the dye was meant to be water soluble.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jexas
Date: 2008-10-24 16:15
Thanks GBK
I love this site its a wealth of information advice and guys who know what there talking about.
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