 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sheryl Smith
Date: 2008-10-14 02:58
Hello!
I have a daughter who is currently in 8th grade and was selected to move up and play early with the high school band. She LOVES playing the bass clarinet and I need to upgrade her instrument. She currently owns a crappyily maintained Vito and she has trouble playing anything in the clarion range and cannot transition from the lower octave to the clarion range without problems. The horn has been overhauled TWICE. No help.
I have the opportunity to purchase an Evette & Schaeffer - Modele Buffet Crampon Paris Bass Clarinet in very good condition from the 1970's.
OR
Yamaha YCL 221 II Brand new straight out of the box. Both are priced within 100 of each other.
They'll both be shipping in out of state so I can't try before I buy, but both have a good return policy.
Which would be better for my daughter? Easier to maintain and more playable where she'll LOVE playing it?
Thank you for your assistance!
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Author: Jkelly32562
Date: 2008-10-14 03:13
I'd vote for the NEW Yamaha YCL 221 II, does new imply warranty?
Jonathan Kelly
jkelly32562@troy.edu
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Author: Sheryl Smith
Date: 2008-10-14 03:21
No, someone bought it for their child who was going to play college but wants to save for a car instead. Silly kid.
Actually I don't know. If the warranty papers aren't filled out yet could I fill them out? Do I need the reciept for that?
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Author: Sheryl Smith
Date: 2008-10-14 03:51
Okay, next question! I've been looking around for a week for the best intermediate bass clarinet. Can you give me your opinions and why or why not (more importantly)?
Selmer models
Yamaha models
etc.
mouthpieces
For four years of marching and concert band? I need a horn that won't have to go to the shop every 6 months. We do take our horns in every year before school starts for any adjustments.
She takes care of her old Vito. She's meticulous about it, but she will still have to lay it down on the metal bleacher when she's not playing it in the stands at football games.
Thank you for any suggestions and I welcome any offers if anyone here can sell me one!
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-10-14 04:18
I do like the Yamaha instruments. They are great for the price. They play well and are well in tune. They also hold up well.
For mouthpieces, I like those made by Clark Fobes. He makes 3 different levels at various prices, so you can likely find something that will work for you. Even the inexpensive ones ar very well made and designed.
http://www.clarkwfobes.com/Low%20Clarinets.html
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Author: Sheryl Smith
Date: 2008-10-14 04:34
Thank you!
I'm looking to spend 2000 (& less) total on a decent bass clarinet and accessories.
I spent $3000 on a Nice Selmer Alto Sax last year for my older daughter and she will be playing it through college as well.
I'm thinking if my younger daughter shows the kind of dedication that my older daughter showed in her last two years of high school, we can move up to an even better bass clarinet if needed.
I appreciate your advice so much and am looking forward to more!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-10-14 05:50
I wouldn't buy a Conn-Selmer bass clarinet (FKA Selmer USA, FKA Bundy) if you can get the Yamaha 221. The old Buffet might be good but those are a lot less consistent than new ones, but I'm not sure the ones I've tried were the Evette model. For an instrument without a double register mechanism the Yamaha is very playable in the middle register, and a good player can do it. Many students might still struggle with it but not as badly as other instruments, and they can improve and be able to do it. So if you have to buy without trying first then I'd start with the Yamaha (and at worst case return it). Older Selmer Paris instruments are possibly an option but maybe not really in your budget.
You don't have that much to spend on accessories. The Yamaha comes (or at least should) with a very good mouthpiece. It's one of the best student mouthpieces. Especially since she'll be playing a marching band maybe it's worth buying a couple of synthetic reeds like Legere, which are less likely to get destroyed when she puts it on the floor, etc. Other than that all you need are the usuall accessories of every woodwind instrument.
Nitai
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2008-10-14 12:44
The Yamaha.
This should not cost you $2000 including a new mouthpiece, if you want a new mouthpiece. Brand new, with a warranty, students are paying about $1650. The mouthpiece that comes with it is not bad.
As far as repair, with the use you are describing, having it adjusted a couple of times a year is not unreasonable.
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Author: Sheryl Smith
Date: 2008-10-14 14:07
I've found a YCL 220 for sale too. I can't find much information on this one when I search online.
What's a good price for this model? Anything I should be worried about?
Is 800 too much for a YCL 220?
Thank you! This is nerve racking. I hate buying expensive things on the internet, but I can't find a great variety here in Tulsa for great prices.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-10-14 14:16
>> She currently owns a crappyily maintained Vito....
Well, the Yamaha 220 model is actually a Vito clone, so isn't the best option 
The 221 is a newer model by Yamaha which is a different (and much better) design.
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2008-10-14 14:51
The 221 is a different and better instrument than the 220.
If you have decided to spend under $2000 then you have done the hard part by deciding on your budget. There are quite a few large music stores that you can by from over the internet that sell the Yamaha 221.
A brand new Yamaha 211 is around $1650.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-10-14 14:59
Doesn't the high school own a good bass clarinet (or two) that your daughter could use? One with a double octave mechanism is really needed for playing easily in that "second" register, especially above G5. However, having said that, I've had many bass clarinet students in my middle school band play with relative ease in that range on vintage Bundy bass clarinets. I know that more of them would have played better had there been pro level double octave basses available for them to use, but we did "ok" with our ancient Bundys. Sending them to the repair shoppe practically every month may have helped...........and good Selmer mpcies. Plus, "warming up" with two octave scales at the start of every band class, the bass clarinets playing the same scale book as the soprano clarinets....regular practice does wonders.
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Author: Sheryl Smith
Date: 2008-10-14 16:17
You've helped me make up my mind! Thanks! I'm going for the 221. You guys are wonderful!
Our high school bandroom and instruments were wiped out by a tornado a few years ago and the school has never replaced all of the more expensive items. Very small school district. Bond issues aren't passed because we already have one of the highest tax rates in the state.
I've been reading that I'll probably have to take a brand new bass clarinet into the shop for some work before it can be played?? What needs to be done? Don't they check everything before it leaves the factory?
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Author: Sheryl Smith
Date: 2008-10-14 16:22
Forgot to ask, which models have the double octave mechanism? Should I look for one?
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-10-14 17:05
"I've been reading that I'll probably have to take a brand new bass clarinet into the shop for some work before it can be played?? What needs to be done? Don't they check everything before it leaves the factory?"
Often a music store will go over things to make sure everything is still working and in adjustment. Sometimes things can go out in shipping.
In my experience, the instruments from Yamaha are set up well. I have played a number of them right out of the box and they have played really great.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
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Author: Sheryl Smith
Date: 2008-10-15 10:15
Is there a difference between the 221 and 221 II? I see both offered.
I bought a Rovner dark ligature and need to buy some reeds. I'm going to buy her a Selmer C* mouthpiece.
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2008-10-15 13:39
I think you need to let her pick out her own mouthpiece by trying some out. Most of the online music stores have a mouthpiece tryout policy. It is a mistake to force a mouthpiece on her. You can purchase a perfectly good Selmer mouthpiece, but it may not work for her.
Tom Ridenour makes a good student mouthpiece the Encore that costs around $60, Clark Fobes has a nice one for around $120. I have a student who just came in with a Roger Garret mouthpiece that she paid about $80 and it sounds very nice.
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Author: Sheryl Smith
Date: 2008-10-15 14:23
When we get her bass clarinet, I guess we could take it in to the music stores around town and see if they have some mouthpieces to try.
I'll write down the mouthpiece models you all suggest and see if we can try them at the stores.
Selmer C
Fobes
?
Has anyone seen a double mechanism on a student model bass clarinet? I've only seen them on professional wooden models. It would be nice if I can find one on a bass clarinet I can afford.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-10-15 14:56
You may not be able to find much in the local music stores. It may be easier to go online and get some on trial. Muncy Winds is good deal deal with. They are very helpful and have lots in stock.
The Fobes are excellent. He has 3 levels of mouthpieces. All are worth checking out.
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2008-10-15 19:03
The Yamaha will be all she needs for many years with or without the double mechanism.
Get online with Muncy Winds for the mouthpieces if you are determined to buy one.. Remember that more expensive does not equal better. Personally, I use the middle priced Fobes mouthpiece. But, I would wait because the mouthpiece that comes with the new YCL-221 is not bad at all.
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Author: Sheryl Smith
Date: 2008-10-15 20:11
WE BOUGHT ONE TODAY! We bought a Yamaha YCL 221 II at a very good music store here in Tulsa. Kayla played on the stock mouthpiece and then a few others and she liked the Fobes Debut the best. It was about $60, but the store let us TRADE the stock mp for the Debut.
I talked to the salesman and then the manager about the deal I was seeing online at a couple of very well known online stores for 1642.00 and free shipping and NO sales tax.
The store went down to 1638, threw in a comprehensive 5 year warranty, 20% off on all accessories we bought today and in the future, free maintenance for a whole year. This extended warranty they said usually costs $9 a month.
They did all that because they had to charge me sales tax. Almost $140!
I'm happy, she's happy, and she's been playing it since we got home almost 3 hours ago.
Can we show pictues here of our new babies?? :-)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-10-15 20:56
Excellent! Glad to hear it worked out and she is happy. Sounds like you made out very well and got a great set up.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-10-15 22:05
Plus....all the good advice on this Board didn't cost a cent.....
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-15 22:20
Nice one Sheryl!
If you are going to post (or post links to) photos, could you take a photo of the register mechanism as that's the part Yamaha never show in their catalogues.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Mark Horne
Date: 2008-10-16 06:20
Sheryl:
You went with the exact set up that I was going to recommend. The YCL 221 II is well made, has excellent keywork, and the two piece body keeps the case to a very manageable size. The Fobes Debut mouthpiece goes very well with clarinet - I have the exact same set up. I did not like the factory 4C mouthpiece at all and thought it would be worthless, however, I found that it works great with an older Noblet wood bass clarinet that I picked up.
For me the Fobes Debut performed almost identically to a Selmer C* that I tried in the store, and for half the price it's a great deal. I have also found that I can get a fuller sound from this clarinet using a Vandoren B44 with softer reeds than they recommend - about a 2 1/2 instead of the 3 1/2 + that they suggest.
I think the single register key is the better choice for someone who is still developing their skills. For me, the most challenging aspect of the Yamaha 221 is attacking the upper clarion notes - from G to C above the staff. It takes a lot of work to attack these notes cleanly (slurring is no problem) and I attribute this to the relatively low placement of the register key (away from the mouthpiece/neck). The payoff is, that once these notes are mastered on the Yamaha, they become much easier to play on a double register key instrument (I also own a vintage Buffet BC with the double register key system).
The disadvantage to using a double register key instrument for younger players is the added complexity - two bridge connections to deal with and multiple adjusting screws - if one of the register keys gets out of adjustment it can be impossible to play. I would also never recommend such an instrument to be used in marching or outdoor gigs.
Overall, it looks like you have a rig that could take your daughter all the way though high school, and perhaps beyond.
Mark
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Author: Sheryl Smith
Date: 2008-10-16 22:38
Hi everyone!
Yes Bob, you guys are wonderful to help people like me for free! I felt like I was running in circles before I found this board.
Chris, we have a football game tonight and I'll take pictures of Kayla playing her new bass clarinet. I'll get some close up shots of the mechanisms for you.
I played Soprano clarinet and alto clarinet (& Sax) in high school and this bass clarinet plays easily for me. I have trouble hitting the higher notes on it, but I'm not used to the larger mouthpiece. Kayla can play the high school fight song very well now! She loves it!
I bought Vandoren reeds and a Medium Ligere (sp?) synthetic reed for her to try as you suggested.
As far as the Fobes Debut, it's amazing how much fuller and warmer the tone is! The stock mouthpiece sounded very, I'm not good at describing sounds, but it sounded brittle to me. I'm so glad we were able to do an even exchange of the stock for the Fobes.
Will hyperlinks to my photobucket pictures work here? I'll try it when we get home LATE tonight from the away football game.
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Author: Sheryl Smith
Date: 2008-10-16 22:42
Thank you Mark! I forgot to acknowledge your post. It makes me breath a sigh of relief that we put together a pretty good setup.
Kayla is playing on Vandoren 3's right now. She wanted 3.5, but they didn't have any. The salesman said more younger players use the 2.5's to 3's. After hearing her play on a 2.5 he went and got a 3. Again I was surprised at how different she sounded.
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Author: Lynn
Date: 2008-10-17 01:19
Gee Sheryl,
Isn't Kayla fortunate to have such a proactive Mom? It's not many teenagers that garner the support of their Moms when making such a major decision in their lives. Kayla is certainly a lucky girl. I only hope your enthusiasm and interest will continue to follow her throughout the rest of her life. Our offspring, after all, certainly need our attention when it comes to the "BIG" choices in life. Hopefully you'll be around to assist her for a long, long time.
Best of luck to Kayla in her bass clarinet career. I'm certain we'll see her name in bright lights for many years to come. BC is certainly a fun instrument to play, and I hope that Kayla enjoys it as much as a lot of us do.
Best wishes to you and your daughter.........
MLM
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-10-17 01:22
Try the David Hite bass clarinet mouthpiece..it is really alot of fun to play and is priced quite low these days. It may be available over at Woodwind and Brasswind.
David Dow
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