 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: woodwind dad
Date: 2008-09-18 21:06
I just picked up a used pair of Ridenour Lyrique Clarinets (576B & 576A) for my daughter; (which she loves) she has a couple of Vandoren Mouthpieces, a B45 and a 5RV Lyre from her previous Buffet E-13 clarinet which she is currently using with her Ridenour clarinets. She also has an unused vintage Buffet R-13 (Chedeville) hard rubber mouthpiece that she would love to try with her Lyrique Clarinets. Unfortunately it does not fit the clarinets, the cork seams to have a slight radius, which makes it to big. My question is, if I have this mouthpiece re-corked would it fit the Lyrique Clarinets or would I have to purchase a different mouthpiece? Also, could anyone recommend a mouthpiece that would be a better match for these great clarinets, besides the Ridenour Mouthpieces? Also, does anyone know the differences between the Ridenour Lyrique 576B and 576BC Clarinets?
I thank you in advance for your comments and suggestions.
Woodwind Dad - Mark
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2008-09-18 21:22
The difference between the 576B and the 576BC is that the 576BC features a polycylindrical bore hand-reamed by Tom Ridenour himself. He sets up and hand-tunes the instrument himself. To my knowledge, the 576B is no longer offered; the 146 seems to be its replacement.
If the cork on the Chedeville mouthpiece is in good condition, a competent tech will most likely need to simply sand it down, so you may not need to replace it.
The mouthpiece that best matches the clarinet will be the one that your daughter likes playing/sounds best with. The B45 and 5RV Lyre mouthpieces are rather different, however; the B45 has a rather open tip, while the 5RV Lyre has a medium-closed tip. What brand/strength reed is your daughter playing? Because of the tip openings, a softer reed will work better with the B45, while a stiffer reed will work better with the 5RV Lyre. Your daughter should have a competent teacher assist her in selecting the best mouthpiece for her.
I currently play a Lyrique 576BC; it is astoundingly well in-tune, and I love the tone. I never played a 576B, but I did play an Arioso (which was nearly the same thing). I thought the Arioso was good, but not as good as the 576BC. In any case, congratulations on having found a great pair of instruments!
J. Wilson
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-09-18 21:36
The stock Buffet mouthpieces, even if they are made from Chedeville blanks, are notorious for being unplayable, at least without extensive work. If your daughter likes the Vandorens she has, I wouldn't go through the exercise with the Buffet, unless you're willing to pay for one of the board's mouthpiece makers to do the surgery.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2008-09-18 22:01
It may be worthwhile to contract the services of a living mouthpiece maker.
The feedback provided by the player will help them fine tune the response of the chosen mouthpiece.
I like the ones I have chosen from the offerings of Greg Smith, Walter Grabner and our very own Dave Spiegelthal.
The big task is to find a mouthpiece that works well with her preferred reed.
Once that's done, she can practice longer (which is when skills will grow).
If it was my money, I would park the Buffet Ched in a drawer - they're more trouble than they're worth...
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Author: woodwind dad
Date: 2008-09-18 22:58
Thanks for all of you comments. My daughter is a freshman in High School. She used the B45 with her Buffet E-13 when she started playing four years ago. She is now using a 3 to 3-1/2 Vandoren reed. She said that the 3-1/2 did not work well with the B45 and she wanted to try 5RV Lyre.
Thanks Again,
Mark
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2008-09-19 03:31
Why does she feel she needs to play a 3.5 (Vandoren) reed? Does the 3 feel too "light" with her B45?
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: woodwind dad
Date: 2008-09-19 09:51
I personally have no idea why she is using a 3.5 reed instead of a 3 reed. I do not know if it is her thinking bigger is better or if her band director is pushing it. Oh and buy the way, I know nothing about clarinets, that is why I am the woodwind dad. I guess you can say that I am the Sergeant Shultz of clarinets. It is my daughter that has the gift, even though she is 14, she plays beyond her years, at least that is what I was told by other band directors and judges. So as a good dad, I am trying to get her the best tools for her trade, sort of speaking. I can say, I am willing to learn and am finding that the tools of the trade and the science behind it, interests me the most. And as always, I thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
Mark
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-09-19 10:00
-- "She said that the 3-1/2 did not work well with the B45" --
I'm not surprised. It has a very open tip so more suited for softer reeds. If I go above a 3.0 reed on the B45, I sound awful!
Steve
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2008-09-19 11:36
The 5RV Lyre will work better than the B45 with a Vandoren 3 1/2. The 5RV Lyre worked very well for me for a while (I played one through high school and as a conservatory student), until I found something I liked just a bit better.
Again, I stress the importance of having a good clarinet teacher help her find what's right for her. If she's not taking lessons now, consider finding her a good teacher. Investing in lessons for her will do far more to develop her talent than investing in more equipment.
J. Wilson
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-09-19 12:04
Get Tom to send her one of his mouthpieces I'm sure it would work better than any you've mentioned. I'm sure he designed it to work with his anyway.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-09-19 12:10
Woodwind Dad, I am going to jump on the bandwagon (pun intended) and suggest that band directors and such are not generally the best source of info when it comes to selecting either mouthpieces or reeds. Seek out a competent professional instructor in your area and inquire about private lessons. If she indeed has the talent you and the judges believe she has, a teacher will be able to help her to realize her full potential. While it's nice that yo are getting her good instruments, now that she has those, she will be able to make more progress with cmpetent instructors.
If you can't afford the regular, weekly lessons, see about once or twice a month, or even just a few initial lessons to correct the most important aspects of her playing and to get the proper reed/mouthpiece interaction, and maybe an occasional lesson as needed thereafter. Other good possibilities are college students majoring on Clarinet Performance at local music schools.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-19 13:13
Let's have a band wagon party! It's Friday, we deserve it!
Hello Woodwind dad,
With my students I have them order a range of mouthpieces that they play test themselves, and then we take a lesson and I help them pick the best mouthpiece for them. I do not and could not insist on every student using mouthpiece "X" because what works for one does not work for the next.
The only more idiotic thing is when a band director specifies that all his students use the same mouthpiece (usually for "uniformity of sound and pitch"). What a guaranteed way to have a section that is frustrated, has difficulty blending, and has poor pitch.
Chiming in with comments above, it is the mouthpiece that predetermines the aproximate strength of reed (in general range: 2.5-3.5) and the individual that picks the specific strength ("I like strength 3"). Here is Vandoren's mouthpiece chart with reed recommendations:
http://www.vandoren.fr/en/tab3.html
It is a common misperception amongst inexperienced players that the higher the strength the better the sound or player...this is absolutely not the case.
Although you may try Tom's mouthpieces, there is no guarantee that they will work better simply because Tom designed the clarinet. Your daughter need to pick a mouthpiece/reed combination that work for her, and then learn to play that mouthpiece.
Private instruction can solve problems, provide insight, and enable progress by large factors if you find the right teacher for how your daughter learns. Good luck!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2008-09-19 13:19
"Get Tom to send her one of his mouthpieces I'm sure it would work better than any you've mentioned. I'm sure he designed it to work with his anyway."
Not necessarily. Mouthpieces work with the player, first and foremost. I did have one of Tom's mouthpieces that came with the Lyrique I bought. The one he sent me sells for $165. For me, it played with a somewhat quiet and stuffy tone. My old 5RV Lyre (which I bought for $100 less than Tom's mouthpiece would cost...) worked better for me. Nowadays, I prefer a Grabner K13. Neither the 5RV Lyre or the K13 are "designed for the Lyrique," but for ME, they play better on the Lyrique than Tom's mouthpiece did.
However...I have a private student that Tom's mouthpiece is working very well for. Didn't work for my playing, but it was a better fit for her.
Point being...she should try different mouthpieces under the guidance of a professional instructor and find what works best, because each player is a little different.
J. Wilson
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-09-19 13:51
Mouthpieces work with the reed, first and formost. Most people have no clue what a reed that matches a mouthpiece facing feels like or sounds like. Hence they have no idea if the mouthpiece is correct or not. So then we move to the next problem: most people I've run into in the clarinet world don't know how to "try" anything. They slap some of the reeds that used on one mouthpiece, blow 15 notes on another mouthpiece and then pronounce it either "great or that it sucks". I believe they don't really have a clue because they haven't really tried it.
Woodwind Dad is being suckered into that clarinet vortex of a child thinking that because that buffet mouthpiece might say Chedville on it that it will somehow have some great impact on his childs playing. It won't, personally I would'nt waist my time to take it to a repair guy and find out. You have 2 mouthhpieces, a 5rv and a B45, two facings that are very different from each other. Pick one and play it. Find (create) 10 reeds that play on it. And PRACTICE.
I pretty much have one of every Vandoren mouthpiece, that's not what I normally play, but not because they don't "work". I have a reed on everyone of them that plays really well. I could play anyone of them on any gig that I do. I play what I play because the sound that I prefer is more in the middle of that mouthpiece. I wouldn't even have all the others but I had alot of time on my hands and someone else was buying them for me. I also wanted to really try them, in something other than a music store. I got a pretty good education, I now know really good "hard" information on Vandoren mouthpieces, not "hear-say" not something my teachers's best student said back in college. It's now a question of which mouthpiece works a B45 or 5rv. They both will work. What's the differance in HOW they work when both have very playable reeds on them.
I am constantly amazed at the time spent on the parts of the clarinet that don't move.
Tom Puwalski, not a vandoren endorser or a regular player, but a person that thinks they get a bad wrap.
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Author: TheButler
Date: 2008-09-19 14:43
At the moment I'm using a 5RV lyre too with my 576b. Works great for me...
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