 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-09-14 15:14
Tony got me thinking about my non thinking approach to playing so I started to ask fellow performers what they were thinking about whilst playing. (I borrowed the whilst from Tony) Performer #1 said he focused on one aspect of playing at a time. This would shift continually during performance. Performer #2 was always involved in the music as it flowed along...just like joining a conveyor belt...with the flow and fitting in. Involvement was important., he couldn't be "thinking of another activity or subject. It was a natural involvement ..not so much thinking. Performer#3. said she wasn't so much thinking whilst playing but was concentrating...focusing. This was interesting to me. I'm looking for ideas about achieving best results in playing. Any thoughts on the distinction between thinking and concentrating?
Freelance woodwind performer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-09-14 15:36
> Any thoughts on the distinction between thinking and concentrating?
Like the distinction between looking and staring.
I can't think while playing, else I'm getting lost. I'm totally focused on what to do now and next.
That's why playing - for me - is a great means of clearing my head, not unlike what others say they experience with meditation, yoga etc.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-09-14 15:57
It is interesting to note I played Music Man yesterday....Prof Hill and his "think system".
Freelance woodwind performer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: hans
Date: 2008-09-14 16:08
Ditto what Ben said above - I can't say it any better.
Hans
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2008-09-14 17:07
"what the heck was the last key change?"
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2008-09-14 17:14
arnoldstang wrote:
> (I borrowed the whilst from Tony)
I used to have a secretary from England. So for a time, the word "whilst" showed up in a lot of my correspondence, too. I liked the sophisticated sound it had, so I let her write everything for me that way. I guess you could say that I adopted an English tone for a while. (but still no vibrato  )
Actually, in my part of the country, we would do well to adopt "whilst" instead of "while," since "while" and "wall" sound virtually identical when pronounced by some Texans, whereas with the pronunciation "wallst," there is clearly no ambiguity. 
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ZCClarinet
Date: 2008-09-14 18:46
I've studied under three different schools of thought when it comes to concentration:
one which said the performer should concentrate on every single note and inflection, not letting any slip by the thought process, no matter how fast the music is going,
another which split what to concentrate on into a hierarchy consisting of longer phrases or gestures and then smaller "check points" that, due to technical difficulty, required closer attention,
and a final teacher which said that the performer should know the music so well that they could play it as flawlessly and with as much emotion as the would when they perform it... while concentrating on watching television (thus, not having to actively concentrate on anything in particular).
I am sure they are other ways and levels of concentration. I think that which one is right for an individual depends on a couple of variables. Namely, what level of concentration they will be capable of for a particular performance (given the nerves and other such things that may interfere), and much they want to participate in self-expression and cross-ensemble communication.
I think the ability to do all of the above is important and... always prepare for the worst
=-Ben Chapin
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-09-15 17:06
I think first of motion. A phrase exists only when it's moving.
I think of phrase shape -- how it moves, the way it rises and falls, and the way it joins with the phrases before and after.
Simultaneously with the other two, I listen to the other players and the ensemble as a whole, fitting into the larger context like a pipe in a pipe organ mixture of stops.
And I'm aware of how playing the clarinet feels.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-09-15 17:29
Ken, On a very basic level would you still employ this approach. If you have to sing happy birthday does all this thinking occur?
Freelance woodwind performer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-09-15 21:10
Arnold -
Thinking occurs to a certain extent. I'm always aware of movement and the physical act of singing or playing the clarinet. In super-easy, super-familiar things like Happy Birthday, of course, it's like pushing a button and letting the song play back. It's the same thing that happens when I see a C major scale, start the process and "let my fingers play it." I don't think about notes, but rather the spaces between the notes -- the movement from one note or phrase to the next. And it's less "thinking" than the sensation of movement -- of going somewhere. It's 10 parts kinesthesia and 1 part thought.
At that level of familiarity, I'm not thinking, any more than I'm thinking of individual body movements as I walk. I'm aware of doing a process that I is made up of many individual movements.
However, the larger process -- the song Happy Birthday -- exists only in time, and I'm aware of that.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: FDF
Date: 2008-09-16 02:45
This has been a worthwhile thread for me, and I appreciate all of the responses, because as a returning clarinetist, and a bit of a Ferdinand, the Bull, I stop occasionally to smell the flowers, and forget that I should be concentrating on the guy with the cape, err baton! I don't have the "happy birthday" effect working for me, as do many of my fellow band members. So, this is a situation I occasionally find myself in, "Wow, I'm playing with some good expression and it balances the ensemble...opps, I missed that key change!" There's a combination of problems here, preparation, familiarity, attention to detail in terms of craftsmanship, and concentration. I'm improving. I think. Advice?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-09-16 04:02
I think you are on the right track. It boils down to paying attention to the guy with the cape and blending with the non cape people. It's not going to be Happy Birthday time. We always drift out of concentration.....something bad happens to shake us up or sometimes we play so well it throws us off too. Just get on with things. Most of the time with music we have to prepare too much quantity. This stretches our skills and doesn't allow us the luxury of being really confident about what we are going to play. I just watched a football game and the quarterback never reacted to success or failure. He seemed to take both in stride. This is probably a good tactic for musicians in performance. Of course during our daily practice we can make sure we play through to the end of pieces without stopping. This encourages us to improve recovery after blips etc. As an aside I would encourage you to put rhythm and time as a focal point for playing in band or orchestra. Ensemble is so very important. all the best.
Freelance woodwind performer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2008-09-16 11:46
Interesting topic. I find that my level of concentration is as intense as when I was roadracing motorcycles. There’s no watching TV and playing a solo. Even if I know it cold, I’m concentrating on phrasing, intonation, tone, ensemble and plenty of other details. I’m probably at the same level as FDF. When things get moving along briskly and I’m not familiar with the music, I can be running on the edge of metal overload, and occasionally a little beyond.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: nes
Date: 2008-09-16 11:46
excuse this ignorant sounding question: does anybody think about intonation to more degree than any other musical aspect?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2008-09-16 16:13
nes wrote:
> excuse this ignorant sounding question: does anybody think
> about intonation to more degree than any other musical aspect?
Yes, violinists, by necessity.
Seriously, though, I think intonation is probably one of those things that you probably have to think about more consciously than other aspects of playing, simply because it is so environmentally sensitive. You can practice fingers, phrasing, and other things by yourself until they are second nature, but ultimately, for us orchestral instrumentalists, playing in tune means playing in tune with the folks around us. Not only the variability of our colleagues but also environmental things like temperature (which produces opposite intonational effects between winds and strings) factor injto the variability of intonation. If we are constantly having to adapt to changes in intonation around us, then I think we tend to become more consciously aware of these things.
Not to say that you can get really good at reacting to intonation extra-consciously, but intonation is always something you have to "react" to, so it's a good thing to be consciously aware of in a performance.
Post Edited (2008-09-16 19:19)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: FDF
Date: 2008-09-16 17:39
Arnoldstang, thanks for the advice and the encouragement.
Forest
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gobboboy
Date: 2008-09-16 18:21
This is the Holy Grail to me.
Mastering the art of total concentration is essential to success in music.
If you are able to immerse yourself completely in whatever it is you are doing you hold the reigns to acheiving a very large part of mastery indeed.
For starters I would recommend the book 'The Inner Game of Music' by Barry Green.
B
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-09-16 19:06
It's thinking about the upcoming runs, etc. that will ruin a performance.
Got to keep your mind on the present, not the future. So many times I've heard top players mess up something simple right before the really tough parts. They were thinking ahead and not keeping their eye on the ball.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-09-17 00:22
David, Shipoopi went by without incidence. It is interesting that Prof. Hill wasn't too far off the mark. I had lunch several years back with a trumpet player in the Chicago Symphony, John Hagstrom. . He attributed his auditioning success to singing the excerpts trying to get at the intent. He wasn't so concerned with how great his voice was...just getting the shape and effect of the line was most important to him. With this approach you can make a statement.....push through all difficulties. John would sing excerpts endlessly in the car etc. Obviously singing intervals correctly is important to brass playing but this was not the point of John's singing. It was the musical intent...
Freelance woodwind performer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DAVE
Date: 2008-09-17 01:14
There are times when no matter how well I prepare, I am thrown into total confusion by others around me. This is especially bad when no one is listening. There are some groups I play with on occasion where so many people are playing so loud or their own tuning that no matter what I do, it does not fit. Maybe this is why I find chamber music or solo work the easiest; there are fewer people to fight.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-09-17 03:22
Without trying to be a goody two shoes here, I would suggest finding some allies in the larger groups. I performed on tour for several years with the musical Les Miserables. The trumpet players had been there for over 15 years on and off with layoffs. They regularly tested unison passages and other problem areas together during the warmups. So you might try this on a small scale. See if the guy beside you would tune a note or better still play a short bit with you. It's a beginning.
Freelance woodwind performer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-09-17 14:49
Arnold -
If John Hagstrom is old enough, he almost certainly worked with Arnold Jacobs, whose motto was "Song and Wind." Concentrating on both of them solves almost all problems.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2008-09-17 15:11
I'm getting a bit older now and I have to admit that I need to concentrate on the music the whole way through. If I allow myself to mentally "wander around" I will make a mistake. Guaranteed.
I try to quickly get myself "zoned in" on the music a few min. before the down beat and remember any instructions the conductor has given. This, of course, is on a piece that isn't familar to me. I'm much freer on a piece that I know quite well. In fact, sometimes that can be a hazard rather than a benefit because it can open the door to a mental mistake that absolutely shouldn't happen.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-09-17 15:54
Looking at this in another way perhaps we should be able to multitask while playing. Practice a passage while thinking of "lunch" or watching tv. or play by memory. This would be a good indicator that we really know what we are doing and it is so fundamental to us that nothing can throw us off. Once you are at this state.......then concentrate on playing. In a way I'm suggesting that you can play musically in a natural fashion without all this "head stuff" going on. Most of the time however we are not at this state..so it is a matter of choosing good "head stuff" while playing.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2008-09-17 17:44)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
