 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: myshineyblackjoy
Date: 2008-08-04 01:05
I have been watching youtube of Julian and others is it commen to move around when playing? I keep my body very still,Guess being classically trained must have had something to do with that. So many talented clarinet players.I love it!!!!!!
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-08-04 01:30
If moving around would make me sound as good as they, I'd go for it!
Personally, I don't particularly like to see clarinetists moving around as much as some I've observed...but then again, it doesn't seem to hinder their playing.
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Author: clarionman
Date: 2008-08-04 03:36
I don't mind a little moving emphasizing a little. There are some clarinetists out there that look like they are dancing and playing at the same time. I think too much movement distracts the audience from what it actually been played, your start paying more attention at the dance then the music.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-08-04 12:12
If movement looks natural as part of playing the clarinet, then it doesn't bother me--for instance, when someone raises the bell in order to change the relative position of the lip on the reed when going for altissimo notes. It also doesn't bother me to see a musician move when the composer requires it, as Stockhausen sometimes does in his pieces that combine playing with dance or mime movements. But, if a musician goes swanning around with big, stagey, fakey, "Look at me! Me! Me!" gyrations, then that bugs me.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-08-04 15:34
I ran across a study of clarinet sound a couple of years ago. Interestingly, the Doppler effect spreads the higher harmonics in the player's sound, changing the timbre of the tone quality.
This all complicates further by the sound reflections in the performance venue.
So, moving the horn adds color to the performance.
Bob Phillips
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-08-04 15:50
I think many players move when they play because it aids them in capturing the expressive qualities of the music. It's certainly not for the audience's benefit. In fact, for some players, I'm not so sure they are all that consciously aware of their movement.
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-08-04 16:00
"So, moving the horn adds color to the performance."
I doubt this is true, but let's suppose it is. It would seem to imply that excessive movement would be commoner among players of movable instruments like the clarinet, than among immovable ones like the piano. But I don't think this is the case. I was at an informal chamber concert yesterday, where one of the pianists irritated me by his swaying and his facial expressions; I found this especially inappropriate in those pieces where he was accompanying a singer. Very difficult to believe he was doing it in the hope of creating a Doppler effect.
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Author: Claireinet
Date: 2008-08-05 01:53
I remember hearing a theory once that orchestra concerts were a more popular venue than wind bands in part because the extra movement made by string players provided more of a show (bowing and whatnot) than stationary wind players did.
Personally, I don't mind seeing a player move around some. Like mrn said I think players can get caught up in the music and may not even be thinking of the audience. If however you are playing non-principal in an orchestra and you detract from the principals (who you should be taking cues from) that might be a bit of a problem.
I find it a bit distracting if someone is giving a solo performance and they make absolutely no movement, its just not natural! (over the top dancing is another story)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2008-08-05 04:15
I don't move around too much. Maybe a VERY slight movement. Just isn't a part of me. I know people who DO move around a lot though.
Although personally, when I attend a classical or even jazz concert, I always end up closing my eyes and just listening with my ears anyway so movement wouldn't bother me.
As long as the movement doesn't hinder their playing or anyone elses playing (I would hate to be hit in the bead by a trombone slide that just was "in the music"), I have no problems with it. Not my cup of tea for myself, but then again I have many other things to worry about besides moving (like a parachutist flying in and taking out some band members perhaps . . . google it)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2008-08-05 08:15
I think that a certain amount of movement for expressive purposes is OK but many players move around so much that it actually hinders the practical side of actually playing, for instance because the fingers are trying to hit a moving target or because the embouchure is not remaining steady, and this cannot be good.
I think that developing, possibly young, players should guard against being over-impressed by those who may go in for these kind of things and consider what the player is actually sounding like and where there may be weaknesses in technical areas!
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-08-05 12:46
Way back in high school, we had a girl who played with elbows extended, arms flapping like chicken wings. It bugged me to no end!
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-08-05 12:47
Nessie1, I agree about encouraging kids to focus first and most on how they really sound. It's true that extreme thrashing around can be an unconscious tic. (A violinist in my high school orchestra contorted her face horribly when she played, so much so that people in the audience sometimes pointed at her and laughed. The teacher who tried to help her stop grimmacing only embarrassed her. The contortions were a genuine tic and the student truly couldn't control it.) But, more often, it looks to me as if musicians who flap all over the place, jiggling, prancing, thrusting their hips and "stirring the pot" with the clarinet, are showing off. They're not only distracting the audience--they're distracting themselves and I'll bet they'd play better if they didn't worry about trying to look sexy. Your comment reminds me of something my first-rate elementary school band teacher said to the class one day: "Instead of wasting energy on flailing around, aim your strength down the horn!"
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-08-05 15:20
The formula for Doppler frequency (the pitch of the sound you hear) is:
f.heard = f.played * speed /speed_of_sound
Since the clarinet sound consists of a number of overtones of differing pitches, they will be shifted more the higher their frequencies.
The effect is small, say the player is wildly swing his/er clarinet at 2-feet per second, and the sound speed is 1111 ft/sec, then the shifts are 2/1111, or about 0.2%, a few cents.
Still measurable on good spectral analyzers.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2008-08-05 17:33
Personally, I tend to move a lot, not to the point of dancing, but I tend to move where there's a lot of movement in the piece I happen to be playing. I tend to raise my clarinet if there's a large crescendo, and I have a habit of slightly bobbing my body in lieu of tapping my foot when I play a march. The latter helps me to keep time, because I'll start tapping my foot in time with the rhythm and not the tempo without realizing it.
For awhile I wasn't aware that I did it. But since it's just a high school setting, it's alien to the rest my section (I'm principal chair). None of them move. But then most of them really aren't serious about playing anyway, or study privately (or practice) outside of school. It got to the point where I had to stop myself from moving to appease them, and I've found that I have to think more consciously NOT to move.
But I mean, to each his own, I guess. Some great players stay about as still as Michelangelo's David, and some move quite a bit. I think it's your personal preference. But I can understand excessive movement. Excessive movement can be distracting if you're in a band or orchestral setting, especially if you're in the former and you're not principal. You stick out like a sore thumb. But if you're performing a concerto or other solo piece I think it's fine to move a bit, because the audience is going to be, most likely, paying attention to you, anyway.
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2008-08-05 17:37
Oh, and, Lelia, I've NEVER seen somebody thrusting their hips while playing. In fact, I'd be quite disturbed to see so. I actually laughed just picturing it.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-08-05 17:41
Moving around some is natural, moving to the point of doing a jig is staged and gaudy, and rather "hammish".
Being completely still is too reserved and possibly quite tense too. In an assistant position though it's pretty much expected.
Lenny Bernstein used to be accused of Conducting with 2 sticks.......
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2008-08-05 17:42)
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-08-05 18:16
Speaking as someone who just graduated from highschool who has already dealt with some pretty serious over-use injuries (tendonitis), I have to say that moving some helps you loosen up and relax a bit.
Also, I tend to move a lot more in performances than in lessons. My private teacher came up to me after my senior recital and said that I sounded much better on my recital than I ever had in the lesson. I think his exact words were "Did you video tape your recital? You should watch your tape and then record yourself practising and watch that. I think you'll be amazed at the difference."
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2008-08-05 20:18
I move around some when playing, but not a lot. I think it's not something I really think about a lot but just feel it.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-08-06 12:54
>>Oh, and, Lelia, I've NEVER seen somebody thrusting their hips while playing. In fact, I'd be quite disturbed to see so. I actually laughed just picturing it.
>>
I've never seen anybody make like Elvis the Pelvis in the Mozart concerto, but that kind of playing is common in jazz and swing. Some of those guys move around suggestively when they're *not* playing, too. If anybody criticized one of them for bracing the bell of his clarinet against his lap, holding the instrument up and out at an interesting angle and bopping around to the music during rests, I'm sure the guy would claim he never even noticed he was doing it. Uh-huh, yeah, just up with the music, ri-i-i-i-ight.... Meanwhile, some other player takes a chorus while competing with this silent sideshow going on behind him/her....
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Allegremente
Date: 2008-08-07 03:40
Visuals are a unique thing, when it comes to cognitive science. When you watch someone do something, it activates nets of "mirror neurons" in your brain, in essence mimicing the brainwork of the thing the other person is doing, allowing you to learn an action by seeing someone else do it. It's a monkey see, monkey do sort of thing, and evolutionarily speaking, mirror neurons are very important things to have.
When you watch a statue on stage, that's what happening in your brain. A static, motionless mirroring. If you watch a performer who moves with the music (sincerely, not showboatingly), your neurons light up and you dance inside your head, pulling you into the music and into the mind of the performer as he dazzles and dives through difficult passages.
Everyone wants to be rock stars, not classical musicians. Why? Because we're boring. We don't rock out on stage, some sort of protocol advises we don't throw ourselves into our music physically, and how much fun is that? The performers people want to be are the ones that let them lose themselves in the music, and those are the performers whose music is channeled through the whole body.
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2008-08-07 07:09
So, would this be too much movement for some? Or would it be all right since, like I said earlier, he's the soloist?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7igsdXHMC-E
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Author: autumnsilence
Date: 2008-08-07 08:01
i dont think there is anything wrong with movement while playing, (as long as it isnt too much). last year in band we had one oboe player who sat next to me and she would move her body slightly but not to the point where it is annoying. I noticed while im playing something hard or with a werid time signature i tend to move my body back and orth more of a way to keep track of the beat and whatnot.
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Author: Allegremente
Date: 2008-08-07 09:24
That's a very nice performance of the Weber, thanks for the video. As to a soloist moving around in performing, I think criticizing it is a bit like criticizing a conductor for moving around while doing his directing. For some it might be too much movement I guess, for me as both an audience member and as a player following a soloist, it's helpful and pleasing to watch.
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2008-08-07 12:05
Agreed, and you're welcome.
People, however seem to not like this performance as much because of how much he moves. I still just like the performance.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2008-08-08 20:47
Hello,
It's funny, I got slammed by a viewer of one of my videos on YouTube for moving too much. About 2 weeks later, I played a concert in D.C. (without changing the way I played or moved in the least) and after the concert, a concertgoer said "You don't move much when you play...".
I really haven't thought about it much, but I suppose that if the movements of a performer bothered me, I'd just avert my eyes. If the performer still bothered me, I'd leave the concert!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-08-09 01:53
Alfred wrote:
> So, would this be too much movement for some? Or would it be all right
> since, like I said earlier, he's the soloist?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7igsdXHMC-E
It's OK because he's Italian. Everybody knows that Italians like to talk with their hands! It's one of the beautiful things about the Italian culture/language--it's espressivo and cantabile!
While he probably looks a bit over the top for many of us (especially for Americans), a lot of us probably look like tight-lipped cowboys to him.
Post Edited (2008-08-09 01:56)
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2009-08-18 13:31
Wow, this is an old thread!
But, that video made me laugh. Hard.
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