 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2008-06-25 13:58
A post in another thread led me to an article by Clark Fobes at http://www.clarkwfobes.com/Tuning%20for%20young.htm, in which he writes:
Quote:
A good Buffet R-13 Bb Clarinet should tune properly (A= 440-441) with a 66mm barrel. Given variations in individuals and mouthpieces, 65mm and 67mm are also acceptable lengths. A Clarinets generally use 65mm barrels, but 64mm and 66mm are acceptable.
And that's something I've read before, but never understood. Why does an A clarinet use a shorter barrel than a B-flat?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-06-25 14:12
I believe it is because the A clarinet bore is both longer in length and smaller in diameter...but eventually someone who is an authority will chime in.
Where's Dr. Segal??
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-06-25 14:40
"Marketing strategy"
I think you have a good point. If "A" clarinets were made with the top joint 1mm shorter, you could use a 66mm barrel.
But what about the bore and pitch??? The bore is different and the pitch would not be good, BUT for many people that are not so discriminating, the pitch would not matter much. So... making the top joint a bit long makes the quite bad with a Bb barrel. So bad, in fact, that you have to get a new barrel.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-06-25 14:56
James Tobin is correct.
The bore dimensions of the A clarinet are different than the Bb, at least on the Buffet type instruments. This necessitates a difference in length.
You will notice that Fobes sells barrels of the same length (65mm) for Bb and A horns, but they are made specifically for A vs. Bb instruments.
So do I, as well as Walter Grabner, Chadash, and, for that matter, most other custom makers.
It is a matter of necessity.....it impinges on intonation, resistance, and resonance, as well as the sonic properties.
That being said, some players find that they are able to use the same barrel on both their A and Bb horns. This is rare, but not unheard of, and I know one fine symphonic player who has done it for years.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-06-25 15:05
I am not saying that the design is the same for Bb and A; just in a different box. But I do think that it would be a harder sell if it were two 66mm barrels with a different bore. The length is a visible factor that everyone can see, but the bore difference is quite a fine one and most do not have the tools to measure the difference.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-06-25 15:12
Tom Ridenour designed the LeBlanc Opus/Concerto/Sonata models so you the same barrel could be used on both A & Bb to facilitate switching during performances and minimize intonation issues between the two instruments. Now that I am using my R13s once again, I am having to deal with needing a 67mm for my Bb and a 65mm for my A. Either I switch just the mouthpiece to a totally cold barrel or use the A on my Bb and leave a 2mm gap for tuning.
Wouldn't it be nice if Buffets were more like LeBlancs in the tuning depts and both would have the keyworks of Yamahas??
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2008-06-25 15:18
I'm afraid I don't understand this explanation. In fact, if as Tobin says the bore is narrower on the A clarinet, then I'm more baffled than ever. Why would it be narrower, and not the same or larger?
Nor do I understand why a difference in the bore would necessitate a shorter barrel.
As a matter of fact Fobes goes on to say
Quote:
(Yamaha and Leblanc clarinets require similar barrel lengths to Buffet clarinets. New Selmer Signature clarinets are quite different and require much shorter barrels)
which suggests to me that barrel length is not something that is simply explained; still, if there is a simple explanation for an A clarinet's shorter barrel (and narrower bore?) I'd like to hear it.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-06-25 15:30
I can only guess based on what seems logic to me so I think the answer is: because they are made this way.
What James Tobin says (which Allan Segal agrees with) implies that the bore of the (Buffet) A clarinet make it require specifically a 65mm barrel or at least a shorter barrel.
About the former, the bore is different but they could make the lower barrel socket 1mm longer and the upper joint tenon 1mm longer, which would make the barrel 66mm but actually change nothing in the bore. So this shows the specific length doesn't really have anything to do with it.
So about the latter, I guess someone could say they want to make the sockets fit both Bb and A clarinets (but if the bores are different?). But for example, my clarinet (not Buffet) has 63mm and 64mm barrels. So I don't think it is impossible for Buffet to make the upper joint of A clarinets 1mm shorter and make the barrel 66mm and keep the sockets similar to Bb barrel. This will move the change in the bore from upper joint to barrel but how significant is this? I am sure this is considerably less significant, if at all, comapred with playing with a barrel slightly open (which many do sometimes) or even different length barrels. So if this is not possible, why?
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-06-25 16:10
Clarnibass, Yep...it is what it is.
That is how they made 'em.
FWIW, as mentioned, some horns have the same diameter for A and Bb (Selmer Recital, certain Leblancs, etc).
It is all a compromise. It is akin to the little tweaks in percentages of metal in an alloy that flutists go nuts over, and not even close to what fiddle players go through both for the fiddle and the bow.
Even pianos are not immune...read about Glenn Gould's piano whackiness or the differences in Steinway Grands (recent NY Times)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2008-06-25 18:28
In my understanding there is a different taper between the Buffet A and Bb barrels for acoustic tuning reasons. The amount of taper is dependant not only by the angle but also length. This is obviously a Buffet design decision and not needed on many other makes of clarinet. On older clarinets with parallel bores it was usually quite practicable to use same barrel on both.
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2008-06-25 19:12
I just measured the diameters of my Buffet A and Bb top joint.
At the top of each,they are exactly same up to 0.01 mm.
And you use same mouthpice for both.
So it has to be same whether A or Bb.
Post Edited (2008-06-25 19:55)
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-06-25 19:57
I saw at Selmer's hompage that the new Privilege Bb and A clarinets both uses 65.5 and 66.5 mm barrels. "A swiftly passing from the B-flat to the A clarinet:barrels are the same for both B-flat and A clarinets". And "Thanks to similar bore architecture,both B-flat and A clarinets clearly stand in the same spirits in terms of sonority,tuning and blowing." Is this something revolutionary?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-06-26 02:54
The great English clarinetist of the past, Jack Brymer said in his book, “Clarinet”, that he thinks of the barrel as an extension of the mouthpiece not part of the clarinet. He has an excellent point. No matter what the bore of your clarinet is, Bb, A, Buffet, Selmer etc. you probably use the same mouthpiece so what does it matter what the bore of your clarinet is when you switch from one clarinet to another. I use a Selmer Signature Bb and a Buffet A and switch all the time. My Selmer requires a 62.5, my A requires a 67, so go figure. I use Backun on all my clarinets, because I like them better. When I used a Buffet Bb, which I do sometimes, I also use a 67. I am able to interchange the Bb and A Backun barrels on my Buffets, but of course can’t on my Selmer to the Buffet. The assistant principal in our BSO section uses one barrel for both his instruments. It may seem strange that the A clarinet is longer but generally, not always, uses a shorter barrel than the Bb but the smaller bore is the reason. I can’t begin to understand why but that’s what it is for most players. Just think like Jack Brymer and it won’t matter. By the way, it’s a great read. Published by G. Schirmers. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (Listen to a little Mozart, live performance)
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