 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-05-29 14:06
what kind of musical things can I do with my 4 year old NEPHEW to start introducing him to music?
Post Edited (2008-05-30 18:41)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-05-29 14:33
what is that?
i have no children so I dont know whats out there.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-05-29 15:39
Baby Beluga is a song by the Canadian kids' singer Raffi.
I don't have kids either but I work in a record shop...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-05-29 15:47
oh, i meant more like teaching music - sounds and rhythm. not just singing songs.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: alpharettablue
Date: 2008-05-29 16:08
I think Jack is right on with "Baby Beluga". Kids learn music by hearing it, singing along with it, clapping in rhythm to it, dancing to it.
My children are both "musical". They learned by having some kind of music going all the time, having parents who played sang and enjoyed music, and engaging in it themselves.
I personally loved we sing and raffi when the kids were little, and I still enjoy raffi though none of us listen to it. Most of the Disney stuff sounds like dreck to me. But, whatever it is, find something you are willing to listen to, over and over and over.
There have to be lots of new kids music albums out there now. Check it out until you find some artists that you can stand to listen to yourself. Don't be afraid to play some of your own music around them (but I had to put away the Alanis Morisette till recently).
Both of my kids started on piano around 6 or 7. Both quit to play wind instruments they could play in the school band. Let them follow their hearts when it comes to instruments.
Always remember that you child is about as likely to play major league baseball as to play in a major symphony orchestra. Instilling a love and appreciation of music is a much better gift than trying to mould future professionals.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ghuba
Date: 2008-05-29 16:28
We started playing the kids music of all kinds (child music, classical music, jazz, and world music) on their own CD player before they were 1. My kids started Suzuki vocal music at 2 (kids and parents class), Suzuki violin at 4 on 1/32 instruments), and cello at 5 (on 1/16 instruments; they were physically too small for cellos at 4). We're not training wanna-be symphonic musicians (actually in our family we would rather have doctors!) or professional baseball players, but children who enjoy music, like creating something themselves, develop discipline, have lots of fun, like the social aspects of the occasional group recital, develop self esteem, and maybe even get the (correlated) benefits of greater mathematical ability from the musical training.
We see the lessons as money (and time from the parents) well spent.
(I just wish the teacher would schedule the lessons at a time more convenient for the parents.)
PS. IMHO, Raffi is like cheap, mass-market candy. Little kids who learn to eat vegetables (listen to classical music, jazz) and sometimes the occasional treat of a Godiva chocolate or Ben&Jerry's ice cream and not globs of mass-market candy grow up healthy.
Post Edited (2008-05-29 16:36)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: alpharettablue
Date: 2008-05-29 16:51
Not everyone likes the same things, Ghuba. No need to dis anyone elses favorites.
I like pretty much every kind of music I've ever listened to. I happily listen to classical, rock, hip hop, klezmer, bluegrass, sitar......
I found that during their pre-school years my kids responded best to simple words and rhythms found in "children's music". With additional exposure to my music.
It's possible to love Raffi when they're four and Mozart at 14.
Just like they read books with one sentence a page when they begin reading, yet may still learn to love Tolstoy.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: fantasmacantos
Date: 2008-05-29 16:58
The talented Louis (the -now- 6 years old clarinetist at youtube) began his clarinet studies at 4. His teacher is Michele Gingras, from the Miami University, and she is doing a great job, maybe if you contact her (google for her webpage) she would give you some professional advice.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-05-29 18:32
<nostalgia>Raffi!!!!</nostalgia>
When I was little, I really liked a set of random toy instruments I had. Mostly percussion-style (various sticks and pieces of wood, triangle, etc.), and a slide whistle and toy glockenspiel. Anything that can make musical noise.
It was similar to this (first thing Google found): http://store.drumbum.com/skuPRC-12.html ... the site seems to have quite a few of the things I used to mess around with.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jkelly32562
Date: 2008-05-29 20:14
Enroll your kid in KinderMusic, it has really taken off here in Alabama, and if people in Alabama can do it, I am sure it will be a piece of cake for other areas.
Jonathan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ghuba
Date: 2008-05-29 20:20
Jkelly32562 wrote:
> Enroll your kid in KinderMusic, it has really taken off here in
> Alabama, and if people in Alabama can do it, I am sure it will
> be a piece of cake for other areas.
>
> Jonathan
Our children were in KinderMusic in both California and North Carolina before we put them into the Suzuki voice/rhythm classes. KinderMusic was good, Suzuki was better, at least in our local area (North Carolina). If you have both in your area, you can ask to see their curricula (or listen to the CDs which show what the kids are going to "study") and also to observe one of their ongoing classes. Observing classes is what made up our mind about preferring the Suzuki method, at least as implemented in our local area.
George
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ghuba
Date: 2008-05-29 20:43
Author: alpharettablue (---.hsd1.ga.comcast.net - ISP in Alpharetta, GA United States)
Date: 2008-05-29 16:51
Not everyone likes the same things, Ghuba. No need to dis anyone elses favorites.
I found that during their pre-school years my kids responded best to simple words and rhythms found in "children's music". With additional exposure to my music.
It's possible to love Raffi when they're four and Mozart at 14.
------
My apologies for making a flip comment about Raffi. And, your taste is your taste, much as mine is mine. No argument there at all.
What concerns me is that people often underestimate the ability of the child's mind to actually process very complex stimuli, and in fact exposing children at an early age to such complex music as Dizzy Gillespie (which my son loved at the age of four) or Itzhak Perlman's Klezmer recordings (which my daughter loves at the age of six) or the Four Seasons at the age of two can help the brain develop in sophisticated ways. At six, my kids have a CD player in their playroom and about 50 CDs ranging from Bach to Mozart to Justin Roberts (intellectual Raffi) to Raffi to Itzhak Perlman to Yo-Yo Ma to Wynton Marsalis. They pick the CDs they want to hear and turn on the machine themselves. They almost never pick Raffi.
I know that a three year old can pick Ella Fitzgerald out of recordings of a dozen other jazz singers of her age and era (such as Nina Simone) and tell you that Ella is his favorite singer.
After all, wasn't Mozart about four when he wrote a lot of the stuff we love as adults?
And, in Kindergarten after I picked them up one day, the kids told me about the famous song they had been studying with their music teacher (Giant Steps by John Coltrane). They now hum Giant Steps and sometimes ask me to play it on the clarinet. We sometimes listen to alternate versions of the song while driving to school.
A four-year-old brain is just waiting to be exposed to the beauty of complex music. And ready to understand it even if the kids do not have a rich enough vocabulary to explain it to an adult.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2008-05-29 20:52
I attribute my love for music to my parents. My mom ALWAYS played merengue/salsa whenever she cleaned and thats pretty much everyday. I grew for a love of latin grooves, squealy trumpet notes, and awesome bari sax playing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: alpharettablue
Date: 2008-05-29 20:55
One of my kids did Kindermusic for a couple of sessions.
In my opinion it's not nearly as good as child-centered child-directed music play. It was too much "no, you're playing the wrong note" "no, you're holding the mallet the wrong way" "Please sit down and stop dancing and singing".
There is no substitute for providing rich musical opportunities in your own home.
I am also not big on adding a lot of structure to 4 yo lives. They already go to full day pk (in my state). Most are being pushed to read and write and do math. Pushing them into structured music may seem like a way to accelerate their learning, but in my mind it ruins it for them.
I have seen studies about early reading. Kids who learn to read "early" don't read any better by third grade than kids who don't read "early". It is a temporary advantage.
In the US elementary kids are among the top in the world academically. By middle school they have dropped to the second tier. By high school, they have dropped even further. We seem to have figured out how to get young children to accept "structure and discipline" but we don't give them much motivation to continue their efforts once they are old enough to make decisions on their own.
My 16 yo chooses how much and when to practice, what ensembles she wants to play in, what other activities she wants to do. She doesn't always make the decisions I would make for her, but her motivation is entirely internal, and the joy she gets from music is a pleasure to witness.
I think that is the way it should be, unless you seriously are trying to force your preschool child into being a professional musician or a musical prodigy.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: alpharettablue
Date: 2008-05-29 21:10
Ghuba, I sense that you're at a different stage of parenting than I am.
I don't think you have reached the age where kids want to share music with their peers.
When that happens you will find that your carefully fostered "good music" may lose it's place to Black-eyed Peas or Panic! at the Disco.
When you get there I reccomend that you do as I did. Listen to their music, learn to appreciate the good points and join them in a little headbanging in the car (as long as none of their friends are around). My daughter loves telling her friends that her moms favorite band is Red Hot Chilli Peppers.
It may not seem possible now, but it will do wonders for your relationship with your kids.
And my 16 year old still says her favorite composer is Shostakovich.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-05-29 22:18
I wholeheartedly agree that kids shouldn't have their exposure limited to "kid-friendly" music.
While I listened to more than my share of Raffi and a bunch of sing-along tapes, one of my earliest memories (triggered by hearing it 15 years later) of music is hearing Tombeau de Couperin, which they'd play a recording of at the library while kids were getting situated for the librarian-led storytime. I remembered it well enough that I managed to find what I think is the same recording.
Kids (many of them, anyways) love a challenge. Keep the fun kids' songs, but mix it up with some sophisticated stuff as well. If I ever have kids, I know they'll be considerably screwy in the head with all the stuff I'll be playing around the house. ("You can listen to Steve Reich AFTER you've eaten your vegetables!")
As far as a structured learn-to-play-music program, I think that it can be great for the kid if they're really into it, but can turn them off if not handled well. The last thing you want is a weekly "you HAVE to go!!!" session.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-05-30 08:54
When I was about six years old it was Prokofiev's Peter And The Wolf that made me decide I want to play clarinet. My parents received the record and book and read it to me while we were listening. We had other records too, but it was this one who who made me tell my parents I want clarinet, and they didn't even know what it was. Four is younger but not THAT much younger. So I wouldn't have them play an instrument, unles they show a specific interest in that intrument (there are too many cases of people playing instruments they don't like). I think it's ok to try to find out if there are any instruments they are more interested in by telling them about it. I think a good idea for now is to have a lot of varied music playing in the background, and also have music with a story (like Peter And The Wolf) playing and combine thta with playing with the kid, for example tell them the story while you listen and have them draw the characters.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-05-30 13:58
>>Pushing them into structured music may seem like a way to accelerate their learning, but in my mind it ruins it for them.
>>
I have seen studies about early reading. Kids who learn to read "early" don't read any better by third grade than kids who don't read "early". It is a temporary advantage.
>>
There's a big difference between pushing (pressuring) and teaching. Little kids learn from everything they do whether anybody's consciously teaching or not, so we might as well offer the opportunity to learn something delightful and useful. Also, music isn't just a set of informational units to memorize. Making music is habit-forming. Those kids who strart music late may catch up with the information quickly, but does the habit of playing and singing sink in the way it does in kids who learn to love music early?
My very first memory is of my parents singing together. From the specifics of my description of that memory many years later, my parents realized I was recalling something that happened when I was younger than six months old. My mom taught me a lot of music without my ever feeling pushed--I wasn't even aware I was being taught, as such. When we sang the solfege scales together, I thought we were playing a game.
In the kitchen, she'd give me a wooden spoon and an old saucepan to bang. It never occurred to me until years later that those songs she sang, while I sang and banged along on the pan (how in the world did she tolerate that racket?!), were in all of the basic rhythmic patterns. Some of the songs incorporated the rhythms into the words: "Hup, and two, and three, and four, we turn around and march some more!" Years later, when someone told me something like, "The clarinets come in on the 'and' of the two," I knew what that meant. Offbeats? No problem. In five? No problem, thanks to Mom and that saucepan and the record player that seemed to be on most of the time when we weren't singing ourselves.
A plastic soprano recorder, small enough for a preschooler's hands, turned up among the birthhday presents when I was about four. Again, no fancy (expensive) lessons and no pressure, but somehow the information did come through that the thing could make music, not just noise, and that in order to get the music, it was easiest to hold the instrument this way, blow that way, put this finger here and that finger there, etc.. The notes on the staves were birds jumping from wire to wire.
We had a piano, a dire old clunker of an upright until I took real piano lessons. The teacher visited. His recommendation for tuning it was, "Half-stick dynamite, I tink, yessss...." So we got a better piano then, but the terrible clunker had served its purpose: never off-limits, although she did distract me in self-defense now and then, if all I wanted to do was see how loud I could bang. (Pretty loud.) "I'll bet if I play some notes, you can copy what I play." Mom never called that ear-training.
Nope, never did grow up to be a famous musician or even an infamous one, but I loved music from day one because I'd been exposed to it and encouraged in constructive ways from day one.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2008-05-30 14:02)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2008-05-30 15:27
http://www.musictogether.com/
My now almost 5 year old really enjoyed this.
The class also provides CDs for home or car use.
My experience was that the class was ENTIRELY dependent on the discipline level of the kids involved. If one kid is the focus of corrections, it takes the fun out of the class... make certain to know what the rules for the unruly are before coughing up cash.
I would ask the local preschool - they're plugged into all this sort of thing.
DON'T BUY ANY INSTRUMENTS RETAIL!
You can't possibly predict what a kid will keep up or discard at 4.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-05-30 17:37
geez people - i just want to expose my nephew to "the arts" in general. it is not my child. just something fun musically to do with him.
i was thinking more on the lines of a kazoo and he can repeat a song. or a little tamborine where he can mimick a rhythm. or the little shaker thingys. just something to hold his interest for about 20 minutes.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-05-30 18:22
Ah, your first post suggested it was your kid. Again, see the link I posted above for random kid-friendly percussion stuff.
Also, when I was little I found no end to the amusement of plonking away on my Grandma's organ when I visited. She had a few Snoopy learn-keyboard books that I went through eagerly, when I wasn't just fiddling around on it at random.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: estclar82
Date: 2008-05-30 18:38
give him/her ESs clarinet and take Mozart piece: c- c- g- g- a- a- g(long)- f- f- e- e- d- d- c- c- g- g- f- f- e- e- d (long)- g- g- f- f- e- e- d (long)
It is simpliest piece. Student learns how are the fingers goingi to instrument.
Bb and other are too big, but Es is normal.
All the best
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-05-30 23:24
I think singing is a great foundation for young childeren. They, and you, don't have to worry about the pains of playing an instrument at first. Small percussion instruments and piano especially are a "step up" after singing. The recorder is another excellent tool for developing musicallity.
good luck
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Betsy
Date: 2008-06-19 04:02
Hello...first post here. As a 15 year Kindermusik educator I must say that the appropriate presentation of this curriculum should follow all developmental needs of the child using music as the springboard. Vocal development, pre-keyboard, two string dulcimer and recorder are introduced at ages 5 and 6, but the very important social aspect of music is enjoyed before beginning private lessons at such a young age. Orff, Kodaly, and other early childhood music masters have been integrated into the program, but any "program" is only as good as it's teacher. Children become musically literate in that both graphic and traditional notation are introduced. It's all about planting seeds.
Anyway, just had to jump in here BECAUSE my 21 year old jazz singer daughter who has studied several instruments in her growing up years (among 2 music teacher parents) was obsessed with Baby Beluga at age 2. We thought we would never hear the end of "again, Baby Beluga, again!"
Back hard at "clarinetting" for a July gig, so glad to find this board!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
