 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jameslyons
Date: 2008-06-16 15:58
I hate Benny Goodman. Not because I don't like his music, but rather because I've been playing nine months and I still can't get that throaty clarinet sound! I practice long tones, and when I play I am capable of maintaining a note without it dipping between flat and sharp. My horn is angled 45 degrees from my chest, and my embouchure is tight, but to no avail.
I can produce the notes, they just don't have the bass component. it's too treble-y. Frustrating.
But I'm still practicing, saving up for a clarinet that isn't made of plastic, and heck even playing with other amateur musicians. Man I wish I could get that clarinet sound!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-06-16 16:29
Dear James, nine months, you’re lucky you’re getting a tone at all. Just kidding, Benny Goodman was the reason I began playing the clarinet in the first place, as were many of my generation. He was a great player for the style of music he played. As a symphony player, he is one of the last players I would like to sound like now but I wish I could play swing the way he did. You could use the same mouthpiece; reed, clarinet and ligature that Goodman played and never sound anything like him. It’s a little bit like trying to have a voice like Elvis Presley or any other famous singer. Everyone has his or her own voice, singer or instrumentalist. The advantage we clarinetists have is that we can change our external tools, a singer can’t. As you develop as a player and become more sensitive to the inn’s and out’s of a clarinet sound you can experiment with different equipment, embouchure and voicing to try to get as close to the sound you want. You may find that as you improve and age your concepts may change, as mine did, and you may not sound like Goodman in the future may love what you sound like. Develop your own voice. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
(Listen to a little Mozart, Sorry, it doesn’t swing)
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-06-16 17:43
Don't fret if you don't sound like Benny Goodman after only 9 months. I'll bet even Benny didn't sound like Benny Goodman after only playing 9 months. It takes time to develop a good tone on clarinet.
That being said, everyone has their own sound. Some of it is due to technique, some of it is due to equipment, but quite a bit of it has to do with anatomy. You may never sound exactly like Benny Goodman, but as you get better at the instrument and develop a more "mature" sound, you may not want to--not because there's anything wrong with Benny Goodman's playing, but because you have your own stylistic preferences, formed from your experiences as a player and as a listener.
Embouchure is one part of the equation, but the "voicing" you use (how you configure your oral cavity, including tongue placement) has just as much to do with it. If you listen carefully to recordings Benny Goodman (or perhaps more easily, Eddie Daniels), you can hear different vowel sounds (oohs, aahs, and eehs) in the tone. This is, to my ears, one of the most characteristic things about the way certain players play.
The easiest thing you can do to instantly modify/improve your tone, however, is to find a good mouthpiece that makes you sound more like you want to sound. This is probably more important than upgrading your clarinet itself (and certainly cheaper).
But don't hate Benny...don't be that way...
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Author: DougR
Date: 2008-06-16 18:21
James, I feel your pain. I've been taking flute lessons since January and I do not yet sound like Julius Baker!! I mean, six whole months, come on already! What's wrong!?? Why aren't I there yet??
Actually, I'm being only a tiny bit facetious, because that's exactly how I feel, even though I "know" better. I've been playing clarinet/sax for, oh, decades now, and now that I'm up against learning the flute kind of from scratch, I REALLY understand the frustration absolute beginners feel at not being able to get a decent sound. I now really GET how frustrating it can be to pick up an instrument every day and know you'll be far, far away from your ideal no matter how well you practice--might even, possibly, just plain SUCK on any given day.
I also now have a new appreciation and respect for absolute beginners who keep at it in the face of all that.
James, you're gonna have to re-calibrate your expectations over a longer term, and concentrate on just showing up every day, learn each of the rudiments your teacher presents as best you can in each practice session, and TRUST (difficult word) that it'll all pan out. My experience is that it DOES pan out, by the way. (Obviously not on MY preferred time frame, but still...) Also, it's helpful for me to notice, and briefly celebrate, any sign of progress I make. (Conversely, it's also important to not beat oneself up if on the next practice session, that hard-won progress seems to have vanished. It'll be back on another day, and next time it might actually stick around.)
I think it's all about persistence, pluck, and faith. And also bravery.
I can't promise it'll make you sound like Benny but I can promise you it'll be the gateway to sounding like Benny, if that makes sense. Good luck!
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2008-06-16 21:13
James Lyons said:
"My horn is angled 45 degrees from my chest, and my embouchure is tight, but to no avail.
I can produce the notes, they just don't have the bass component. it's too treble-y. Frustrating."
1) 45 degrees from your chest? Forget that. Angle the horn to where it produces the richest, fullest sound - try it up, down, and around the middle. And later on, adjust that too, if necessary. Everybody's jaw position is different.
Listen, listen, listen, and forget the books. Musicians who write books often express themselves better on the clarinet than they do with words.
2) Loosen up your embouchure. Unless you know exactly what is going on at the center of your lips, tight corners can only produce tight, pinched sounds (like that girl weaving around while playing Poulenc somewhere else on this board). Place your entire mind in your upper lip at the center.
3) Try a double-lip embouchure 5 minutes a day and blow only up to the break. When you do it, place your mind in BOTH lips at the center. Surround the mouthpiece with love. Think "Pucker".
4) For a few weeks let the lower tones honk out. Just keep them in tune and forget what comes out of the bell. It will soon enough get better.
That'll be $50 please.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-06-17 13:53
The sound produced by a clarinetist is the result of many variables. Different clarinets are capable of different sounds as are the "aural cavities" of individuals.
Even if you had identical equipment to what BG used you might never be able to make the same sound he did.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Avie
Date: 2008-06-17 19:35
All great advise. Continue listening while trying to bring out what you think is your best sound. It will get better.
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Author: clarinetguy55
Date: 2008-06-17 22:02
Getting a throaty sound will take a lot more than 9 months of experience. I have been playing for almost 5 years and I learned that sound a couple of months ago.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-06-18 02:26
Ed is right on. But one has to know that BG studied straight classical at the beginning, and it was always in his head. Toward the end he was interviewed by a journal. The F minor Brahms was on the stand. The interviewer asked, Why is that on the stand"?
Benny responded with, "What am I supposed to play? "China Boy"all day long"?
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2008-06-18 02:27)
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2008-06-18 04:01
I happen to like Benny Goodman and Artie Shaw very much but I know realistically I'll never sound like either one. Now if you want to feel a bit better about it all, listen to Woody Allen's tone on the clarinet.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-06-18 12:24
I've only listened to Woody's playing in "Wild Man Blues" and I like his sound even when his reed doesn't cooperate. Good to hear from you, Dutch.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Jameslyons
Date: 2008-06-19 06:10
Wow, what great responses. The concept of voicing the air inside your mouth sounds really intimidating though! It seems like the consensus is that an individual player's tone is directly linked to the individual's mouth. If that is the case, then trying out different positions of the internal embouchure is as important as working on one's lips.
While I remain frustrated at my slow progress when comparing myself to far more established musicians, I love to play. All day if my mouth could handle the stress of the embouchure. Right now, I'm working on scales and fingering exercises. But methods of finding the right tone...that is to say the tone that sounds best to the external ear, is proving difficult. I wonder a tape recorder is a valid tool in self-appraisal. My experiences have been helpful (I still feel happy when listening to a tape of my first practice session), I wonder if the treble is too high due to the microphone's low quality.
I've started moving my clarinet around while practicing (not too much) and found that I can get a bit better noise if I play with the clarinet bell farther away from my chest. Either way I'm going to keep practicing. I'd love to have that throaty sound, but if not, I'm still happy to play sharper-sounding notes.
I considered buying a new mouthpiece, but my clarinet is so cheap that it may be a better idea to first transfer over to a nicer student clarinet. But then my question is should I save up for an intermediate clarinet or just go for a student yamaha or buffet. It's silly, in the end because I know the most important thing to get down on the clarinet is the ability to play in certain keys and actually produce a noise.
The BG sound can wait a couple more years...I suppose.
Thanks again, everybody. As usual your advice is much appreciated.
James.
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Author: timg
Date: 2008-06-19 10:36
What's a "valid" tool? Certainly my teacher recommended that I record and listen to myself play, and I have found that advice useful. As with the voice, the sound other people hear is quite different to our own perception.
I continue to experiment with the muscles in the mouth, throat, chest and stomach, and find that this has a substantial effect on the sound. There's an enormous vocabulary to describe tone quality: projected, centered, sweet, dark, round, and so on. The definition of these adjectives is vague at best, but to me the quality of the sound is more obvious or pronounced on a recording.
A technique I have used is to play into a microphone connected to a laptop. I can listen to the sound "live" via headphones, and also see the sound spectrum. If I start to relax the air support or tighten the throat, the tone degrades and the sound spectrum shows the change in harmonics very clearly. Most importantly when the tone is "nice", the clarinet also becomes easier to play and control.
Tim
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-06-19 13:22
> in the end because I know the most important thing to get down on the clarinet is the ability to play in certain keys and actually produce a noise.
Well, yes, making a noise and playing in different keys is important. But tone is important too. *It's what gets people to stop and listen.* Never mind the technical wizardry: why bother playing it on a clarinet in the first place? Because it sounds wonderful, of course. As I've progressed, it's been largely tone that has driven my equipment changes. And I find I concentrate on everything else more easily if my tone comes easily.
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2008-06-19 23:54
I think we (i,e.,terrible players like me) should have a different mind set.
When you listening ,be very critical.
But when you playing ,be very forgiving.
If you apply same criteria,not many will feel good after listening BG(or any
other great players out there.)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2008-06-22 06:04
The good news for any Benny Goodman fan is the fact that Benny developed that sound along with (or in spite of) very good classical training with an excellent teacher. I feel sure that Benny did a good job with the rigours of 'classical' playing and could integrate it with his other playing activities. Ditto for Buster Bailey who also studied with the same teacher.
Ditto again for Sol Yaged, who was studying on the classical side, but who became a Goodman-influenced jazz player. And biggest dittos of all for Eddie Daniels and Don Byron who developed great jazz sounds after earning degrees in clarinet from name institutions.
Master the instrument in a way that preserves your abilities as a band/orchestra/chamber player. As you pursue jazz, you'll find that sound and you'll have a lot of options open.
In the meantime you might want to do some research in this area. One book on Benny that I particularly enjoyed was "Benny Goodman and the Swing Era" by George Lincoln Collier.
Allen Cole
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Author: Philcoman
Date: 2008-06-23 16:32
Just have to mention this -- I first picked up the clarinet after hearing Benny Goodman play, and I played for ten years before I accepted the fact that I'll never sound like Benny. There was a short period during which I was tempted to throw my clarinet across the room, but after that I realized that I was very happy sounding like myself. Therein lies the joy.
Every aspiring musician starts out wanting to sound like his idol. What a dull world it would be if it always worked out!
"If you want to do something, you do it, and handle the obstacles as they come." --Benny Goodman
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