 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2008-06-10 20:15
A primer on polite behavior for players, audience, and directors.
(I never finished this, but it might be useful, especially for students.)
http://home.comcast.net/~bmcgar/Etiquette.html
Don't miss the beeping oboe player!
Feedback and suggestions, please.
B.
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2008-06-10 20:24
'Turn your cell phone completely off. The vibrator, too.'
You may want to rephrase that...
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-06-11 01:24
[ snipped - GBK ]
Thats excellent advice for performers. I enjoyed how you give examples to back up your claims.
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Author: marcia
Date: 2008-06-11 04:58
Your Etiquette for Audience members ahould be required reading for ALL audience members, and rigidly enforced. I have attended concerts where "all of the above" have occured. Irritating in the extreme!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-06-11 11:25
I don't agree with all those "rules", but more important than that I think things like that need to be taught but your parents, teacher and hopefully enviorment, by not only saying it, but more importantly by giving example themselves. The people who as you say need this advice the most are the least likely to gain much if anything from some website simply saying it.
IMHO
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Author: ASBassCl1
Date: 2008-06-11 17:04
This is very good advice. You should look at the "Don't Applauding" near the bottom and fix that error, but very considerate of a performance, thanks.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2008-06-11 19:34
Yes, we should all be taught by our teachers, parents, etc., but we're usually not.
Good manners, performance etiquette, and "best practices" don't seem to be taught anymore by most teachers, parents, etc., much less known and practiced by those people themselves, in many many cases.
Further, it's become forbidden to correct anyone, other than maybe children or close relatives (lest we offend the offensive or risk getting flipped off).
From flash cameras in concert halls to cell phone conversations in libraries to texting during face-to-face conversations, it's anything goes these days, hence the Web page.
Hopefully, it'll get passed around and reach a few people who really want to be considerate, but just never thought about some of these things.
B.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-06-12 08:27
I guess I should be clearer with what I meant. I didn't mean those things should be taught by parents, teachers, etc. specifically. Commenting about it occasionally is ok, but if someone is rude they are probably rude in just abotu anythign they would do. It is something much more basic that needs to be tuaght, a combination of culture and personality.
About the things you wrote, I just think some are too general and some are too specific to fit a lot of real situations. For example not appluading after Amazing Grace. That must be some cultural thing, but I don't see any problem with that, after a good performance of this song. OTOH things like those totally random choices of how long in advance to arrive completely don't fit with almost any situation I've played (professionally or not). Rushing everywhere and being late usually doesn't have much to do with schedule but most of the time with personality. If you say that you are probably a type of person who is almsot never late. Like the old saying "If you want something done give it to a busy man".
That list you give is in my opinion could only work as a rule list of a specific organization who chooses it, like an orchestra or a big band, for example.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-06-12 19:43
The advices for performers could be introduced in some subject that most conservatories have under "How to act and behave as a professional".
The rules for audiences is more tricky. I guess one have to pick the right parents basically. I think the last thing our classical music business needs is written rules in the programs. It's all about education, either you have it or you don't
Alphie
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-06-13 14:26
What audiences? You mean the 3-7 people that will show up to a clarinet recital, classical music concert are being too loud? I don't care how they behave, I just want them to buy a ticket and show up!
Tom Puwalski the artist formerly known as Sarge
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2008-06-13 16:33
To quote Morton Feldman: "it dawned upon me that there was a possibility that music might not even be an art form..."
And thus I second that, Tom. This sort of pretension is exactly what keeps people far away from classical music.
There should be no guidelines as to what makes a great performance, how to perform a proper recital, etc. Even "How to act and behave as a professional" is a disturbing way of squashing innovation and originality in the professional field. Classical music performance in itself has undoubtedly become the least creative art form, but I'd like to see that change instead of being reinforced.
I'll have none of it, thank you.
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
Post Edited (2008-06-13 16:35)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-06-13 20:20
Gotta agree with Tom and Sean on this one.
If you DEMAND that someone is quiet because you DEMAND that you are presenting good music, the audience member is quite likely to look for less demanding ways to spend a night out.
If, instead, you offer something truly engaging, you may find that the audience is quiet because THEY WANT TO HEAR WHAT'S GOING ON rather than because you told them to. People being quiet and listening intently to a really good performance can be contagious.
Perhaps the problem is not so much the attitude of the audience as it is the low quality of a lot of classical performances. If I behave myself and am treated to a sub-par, uninspired performance, not only have I wasted a bunch of time, but I've done in uncomfortably.
I might also suggest this... in our obsession with concert politeness, we may very well have restrained ourselves to the point where we're unwilling to respond to a really obnoxious audience member with a shush or a slap upside the head.
Also, heaven forbid someone whispers intelligent (or even unintelligent) commentary to a neighbor that enhances their understanding or appreciation of the music.
This could be another casualty of recorded music. Not only do we demand that our performers play with ludicrously tight note accuracy in person like a CD, but we also demand that there be no background noise like a CD.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2008-06-13 20:38
>> Not only do we demand that our performers play with ludicrously tight note accuracy in person like a CD, but we also demand that there be no background noise like a CD.
This is what I love about pop/jazz music. If the audience gets excited about what they are hearing they let you know and truly enjoy themselves. Why is it wrong, for instance, to give a loud cheer after a particularly fantastic rendition of the Thaick. IV solo because you thought it was so incredible? If the musicians are really as good as they say they are, then such a disturbance should be of no consequence.
The only argument I can think of is that it would disturb the performers on stage and destroy the ostentatious atmosphere. As such, I think classical music should be somewhat amplified in a live setting and people should be encouraged to have a great time and truly enjoy the concert instead of feeling like they are at a museum or library.
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-06-13 21:32
Sean.Perrin wrote:
> The only argument I can think of is that it would disturb the
> performers on stage and destroy the ostentatious atmosphere. As
> such, I think classical music should be somewhat amplified in a
> live setting and people should be encouraged to have a great
> time and truly enjoy the concert instead of feeling like they
> are at a museum or library.
Mind you, there are underground, guerilla musicians out there who - gasp! - self-serve themselves from the Classic, Jazz and Folk aisles and fill the halls with twenty-odd year olds who actually enjoy the mix of a sarabande and a mazurka, inspired by Rameau. (and they dare to play those pieces on severely odd instruments, like a Schwyzerörgeli or a Hurdy gurdy, yech!)
Much to my dismay, many classical performances try to conserve the form, but fail to convey the spirit.
--
Ben
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2008-06-14 02:36
Sean Perrin wrote, "This sort of pretension is exactly what keeps people far away from classical music."
I guess it's another indication of my great age that my request (no, not "demand," and no, not a "set of rules") for simple, polite behavior of the most basic kind is considered "pretentious."
When I'm in the audience, I promise I'll be more appreciative of the squalling baby sitting next to me in the audience, the cell phone lights flashing on and off, and the people in the next row talking loudly about how much Aunt Jean needs to have that mole removed.
When I'm on stage, I'll smile and nod at the oboist beeping on his reed during an introduction, the clarinetist coming in two minutes before the downbeat and elbowing her way through the section to get to her chair, and the soloist who muffs his solo because he didn't oil the valves before the performance and a valve stuck.
Well, this exchange has answered a nagging question of mine: "What happened to good manners and the consideration of the welfare of those around us?"
The answer, apparently, is that manners and polite behavior are "pretentious" and "quash individuality and innovation."
(I certainly hope to learn to appreciate "innovations" such as I saw during a rehearsal some years ago: a woman in the clarinet section listening to a basketball game on her iPod during rehearsal.)
HOOOOray for "individuality"! Anything goes!
B.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-06-14 06:27
No need to get snippy. My point is that manners shouldn't be enforced unilaterally. Manners should come about from MUTUAL respect between the parties involved. If a self-declared concert-dictator declares rules from on high, don't be surprised if people are turned off by it.
If you declare a long, authoritative list of "DON'T DO THIS" rules, people won't come to your concert. If, instead, you set a good example and occasionally smack a particularly rude participant upside the head, you set a much more effective precedent.
The examples you just posted are extremes, and people should get really nasty looks for a lot of that. The performer ones are grounds for dismissal from the ensemble (perhaps after a warning, if the group is fairly green), and shouldn't have to be enumerated. Just because you've had bad experiences, doesn't mean you have to set a bunch of very special-case guidelines.
The very existence of such a list betrays an air of frustration, superiority, and distrust. Most anywhere outside the classical world, one would not assume that their potential customers/patrons will frustrate them before they even show up.
If you act professionally and behave with common courtesy, people will likely respond in kind. If, before even giving people a chance, you already bog them down with a laundry list of things not to do, so much so that they're afraid to do anything and can be turned off from the experience, they're likely to go see a fine performance by the likes of Willie Nelson (who, like many non-Classical performers, tends to enjoy a respectful, well-mannered audience without imposing a set of expectations).
Classical music by itself already declares itself morally superior in many circles, with classical radio stations asserting themselves as "Southern California's Home for Arts and Culture" and "Playing the best music ever written." I hardly see how they can make claim to such things, but the classical world in general regularly does, and even the most mediocre classical performers somehow demand the same respect as legendary talent and are upset when they don't get it.
Perhaps the problem is that so many classical audiences don't actually like going to classical concerts, but rather do so out of some sense of obligation to "experience culture."
That, and we need to bring back booing. Keeps the performers in check in an otherwise over-supportive atmosphere that breeds mediocrity because even horrid performances are often met with roaring applause.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: marcia
Date: 2008-06-14 07:10
In my experience the examples (audience) provided are not the extreme, they are commonplace. I have given many a nasty look, often to no avail. Perhaps there should be separate listening areas: one for those who wish to enjoy in silence, and another for those who wish to make noise.
Marcia
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