 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: A.F.Danny.Q
Date: 2008-06-02 07:47
Hi,
Do you know what are the differences between these mouthpiece?
I have a B45 (lyre) now, it provides a round, bight sound.
But I will be very tired after playing it for 20 mintues.
I think M15 may be a good choice for me.
But I don't want to buy one before I've known about it.
I'm now using Vandoren V12 #3.5-4
Thank you!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: denner22
Date: 2008-06-02 09:41
Try going to the Vandoren mouthpiece page
http://www.vandoren.fr/en/clarinetbb.html
There you can see the differences between the various mouthpieces that Vandoren make. You will see on that page that the B45 Lyre is quite an open mouthpiece. You may find the M15 less tiring, but like most other things, you will need to try this for yourself with your setup.
You might consider trying a different reed /mouthpiece setup - maybe a lighter strength reed will still produce the same sound that you like without the tiredness. We are all different in this regard, so there are no hard and fast rules.
Failing that, well long notes and more practice  :)
David
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Neal Raskin
Date: 2008-06-02 12:13
Also look on that vandoren page for a reed recommendation. if i'm not mistaken, each mp is in a way matched up to work well with a vandoren reed/strength. Maybe try Traditional #3 or something like that. If the reed is too hard, you will find a lot of strain on your jaw. Try a softer reed, but make sure not to bite because you might be used to a harder reed.
good luck
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: A.F.Danny.Q
Date: 2008-06-02 12:48
Raskin，
Thanks for you comment.But #3 seems too soft for me.When I try playing the high E or higher, it will out of tune.
I didn't bit the mouyhpiece.In fact, I like to keep more reed in my mouth so that it will provite a round, bright and sweet sound.
I've also tried yamaha 4c, and I think it should be a good one for me too. It's so easy to play.Do you know the tip opening of this mouthpiece?
Danny
Post Edited (2008-06-02 12:57)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-06-02 12:55
Use the chart and order several to try and compare.
You won't like all of them the same, but its you that count for what works for you.
Good players play all of them listed. Till reading this board I had no idea how popular the B40 was.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-06-02 14:41
Just bought a M30. It gets a nice covered sound and plays well. The tip rail is very wide. After I've played it in context I'm finding it too resistant so I'm going to have the tip rail etc modified. I play other woodwinds and when I switch quickly to the M30 that is when I didn't like the resistance. Even Bass clarinet to the M30 didn't feel good. Perhaps if you're not switching it would be great. It's interesting (to me) that when I measure the tip opening with a curved wand it showed a closer opening than 1.15mm. I take it that is due to the wide tip rail. After the rail is altered it may feel way more open. The M15 just felt a little small to me. It might however be a great choice. I tried also B40...it was too open and unfocused with my reeds.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2008-06-02 14:46)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-06-02 18:48
I play with more mouthpiece in the mouth as well. This is usually suggests that mouthpieces with longer lays are a better choice. I have loved the M15, yet often seek a mouthpiece that allows more air. From there I had gone to an M13 but did not like the M13 Lyre so much (don't really know why....according to the stats, it should have just had a slightly longer lay).
As of now I have settled on the M30 (regular - no 13 series, no 88 beak) which is a bit more open than the M13 but not obnoxious like the M13 Lyre (again I just can't explain to myself why I have such a dislike for the M13 Lyre).
At any rate, I would suggest the M30 as the first step down from the B45 because it will have more of that feel without being so bloody open. But as others above have said, you should really try them out for yourself.
..........Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-06-02 20:50
Every player has different needs and desires. The only way to know what works best for you is to try them. Taking other peoples recommendation is not always such a good idea. When I was a student I tried mouthpiece that someone I heard sound good on, thinking I would sound the same, never worked. Try as many as you can and decide on the best one “for you”. Don’t be afraid to change until you find what’s right for you. It’s worth the investment over time. That was the “Russianoff” style of teaching, one that I’ve adapted myself. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Menendez
Date: 2008-06-02 21:36
If you feel that Vandoren V12 number 3 reed is too soft for your B45 Lyre, then you must to practice long notes a lot and re-educate your embochure.
The B45 Lyre is the second most open mouthpiece from Vandoren. Playing with V12 reeds it is recommendable to use number 2,5. You are tired after 20 min playing because you are using too hard reeds.
M15 is the opposite mouthpiece. If you choose this mouthpiece to play, you will have to re-educate your embochure to do less pression with your lips. You will have less physical problems, because this mouthpiece is closed and you will need to blow less air to sound.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-06-03 00:03
Your best bet is to try before you buy. I take that back, you HAVE TO try before you buy. buying a mouthpiece is like buying clothes. without knowing how it fits before you buy it, your left guessing. I used to use an M13 lyre before i bought my Fobes San Fransisco CF+. The M13, M13 lyre, and Fobes SF CF+ are all quite a bit more closed than your B45, so you'd have to increase reed strength and become acustomed to it. If your looking for something similar to your B45, I'd look beyond Vandoren. Although they are excellent, consistant mouthpieces, you have other options. I stand by my Fobes and would reccomend trying one of his San Fransisco style mps. Mr. Fobes has many facings to choose from, so your bound to find one that fits you. They are extremely reed friendly. The one downside to buying a better quality mp is obviously the cost, but you will be more satisfied.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-06-03 02:29
I've said it before and will say it again, the QUALITY is THERE with Vandorens. There are much more expensive custom mouthpieces that may (or may not) offer differences that you could appreciate, HOWEVER, I love my Vandorens (and their consistancy of product across the board.......I just auditioned five different M30s and found them all to be extremely close in tolerances and playing characteristics) as much as mouthpieces costing four times as much.
............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-06-03 14:04
The operative word is "try". I'm amazed at how few players know how to do this with anything resembling a "scientific" method. It seems the typical way people go about this is to:
A. Pick up a random mouthpiece
B. put that old, worn out reed that sounded great on your last recital
C. blow 5-10 fast notes, the 3 excerpts they know, and the second mov. of Mozart
D. Make a pronouncement, the mouthpiece is the greatest ever or it sucks
I have watched people drop hundreds of dollars on mouthpieces doing exactly that. They have worse than no information, they have "bad" information. They have only found out how that old beat up reed reacts on this new mouthpiece. If the reed sounds better it's a great mouthpiece if it doesn't, say it sucks and dis anyone who plays on such crap.
Needless to say, this is not the best way to find a mouthpiece. You need more and BETTER information! There are a few things I like to know before I evaluate anything related to clarinet mouthpieces
1. What am I unhappy with about my current combination
a. am I consistently able to adjust a reeds to make it playable? If the answer to this question is no and you're still at the mercy of pulling reeds out of a box and seeing which ones happen to work on your mouthpiece, you need to learn to work on reeds, before you do the mouthpiece quest.
b. do I like the way I sound on it? If I don't what other factor could be influencing my sound? reed choice? embouchure? clarinet condition? Tonal concept( don't negate this one) You might have an alignment problem- changing tires won't help.
c. how does it tune on your clarinet? If you know great, if not sit with a tuner and another player spend an afternoon mapping the clarinet out. See if notes are similar in pitch when you play and when the other person plays your horn. Mouthpieces can affect pitch. Know why and how! Know if it's the mouthpiece, the clarinet or you that's "out of tune"
2. How and why am I going to go about this search? Did you just walk in to my first lesson in college and hear the dreaded, " you're going to have to change your equipment if you're going to study with me" or just get a military band gig and notice that everyone in the section seems to be using "brand X, with the super computer modeled power facing on it"? OR do I think I'm this close to really making it on clarinet in School, or an Orchestra whatever and this famous player that I and everyone thinks is god, played this old mouthpiece and I need to hunt one down. Even if it means paying more for it than a clarinet, and not being able to "try" it. OR have you played on your mouthpiece for awhile, have a good idea what it does, have a real feel for the tonal flexibility , pitch and ease of playing, and have decided you want to find something that's, how I like to put it, "better or easier"? If you really "know" your equipment then try some mouthpieces.
Some mouthpiece Truth's (things that Tom Puwalski has found in lot's of years of observation)
1. there are people sounding great on the same set up that you play right now. There are also people that sound like crap on it too
2. Mouthpieces should be thought of more like eyeglasses, you wouldn't think you could use someone's glasses and that the prescription would be exactly right? or that if you had that Ethiopian guy's shoes , you could win the Boston Marathon?
3. mouthpieces don't have "certain" sounds. You won't sound more like Marcellus, Ricardo, Arty Shaw or Pete fountain even if you had their exact equipment that they played. It might make you look in a certain direction for a sound, but it won't "give" it to you. You will have to make it.
4. you can't buy game! Those of us old enough to remember PF flyers know what I mean. did any of us really "run faster or jump higher"
5. There is no such thing as "a Jazz mouthpiece" or a Klezmer mouthpiece or " orchestral" mouthpieces. only what works for individual players. What kind of sound do I want, what kind of reed to I like to play what characteristics do I use in my playing to get my musical point across.
6. You can play a B45 sound great on it but if you try an M15 you will have to adjust you embouchure, your reeds, your air or maybe all 3. That's not a bad thing, the converse is also true, M15 to a B45. Both mouthpieces really do work
Ok those last 6 things were totally my opinion, feel free to disagree, but that's my opinion, for ME they're true.
So here are a few recommendations for the quest for the holy grail, once again totally personal opinion.
if you're unsure, or not knowledgeable, about facings get a middle of the road Vandoren a 5RV lyre or something in that range. Buy it! figure out how to make it sound good, what reed it wants get comfortable on it. Then try some of their mouthpieces that are closer, more open, shorter, longer and try and see how they fit. I say Vandoren because this will be way less expensive and I've found in the last 5 years their quality has really improved and a lot of clarinetist sound really good on these. I've measured facings on a recent shipment of Vandoren Mps and the facings were really well done. All symmetrical and in the exactly right for their listed facing. Resist the "I need to try 15 of the same facing to find exactly the right one" urge. Every identical mouthpiece I've played, plays different than the other one. That is to say, If I take one of my mouthpieces, my current favorite (for the last few years anyway) has been a MOBA "L" that I've had Robert Scott make longer, I have 3 that are 36 and 3 that are 38 length. All are similar to an M15 facing. If I take the same reed and put it on each mouthpiece I can play it but it's not optimum. If I find the right reed for each, they all play really close, I would say all within "reed" tolerances. That being said the M15 I have with the correct reed on it is really quite good. I also have been experimenting with an M30. more open same length as M15. With a reed matched to the M30 if works very well, but differently than the M15 facings.
The only other advice I would give is to always have "redundant" equipment!! I have spare rigs that I could play on in 10 min. if I had to. If you're playing the "one of a kind" thing you will someday be in a world of hurt. Accidents happen mouthpieces break, horns and cases get stolen. Never a month before a performance or an audition, it's always the day of, so BE Prepared!
Tom Puwalski, Former clarinet soloist with The U.S. Army Field Band, clarinetist with The Atonement, and Author of "The Clarinetists Guide to Klezmer"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: estclar82
Date: 2008-06-03 15:02
What you mean tired?
I play a day 5- 9 hours and end of day I feel a little bit tire.
I think playing te clarinet is noting but job.
I use 45 Lyre too, and 3 1/2 V 12 I used No 4, but mostly 3 1/2. 3 is good too.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2008-06-03 15:04
>The only other advice I would give is to always have "redundant" >equipment!! I have spare rigs that I could play on in 10 min. if I had to. If >you're playing the "one of a kind" thing you will someday be in a world of >hurt. Accidents happen mouthpieces break, horns and cases get stolen. >Never a month before a performance or an audition, it's always the day of, >so BE Prepared!
Quite possibly the best advice I've seen on this board lately.
I've actually saved OTHER people's keesters by having spare equipment along on a gig.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: winders
Date: 2008-06-03 15:18
I think Vandoren M13 Lyre with Leather Ligature and M30 is very good choice.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-06-03 18:51
Of all of this group I think the M15 13 series has a superb scale and reminds me the most of the older Chedeville..I found the M13s to be nice but somewhat smaller in terms of volume of tone.
As to the M30 they play a bit low on some notes over other notes but may be just the ticket for some players. They have a very nice sound and work really well for some players. As to the B40 it's a fine piece provided you have a soft enough reed that plays well for it..lately I have been using the M15 13 series and think this is a great sounding mouthpiece.
David Dow
Post Edited (2008-06-03 18:52)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-06-03 22:13
The great thing about Vandorens is that they have so many different models that work for different people. I do think that the M15 series 13 is the best close facing and that the B40 Lyre 13 series is the best open facing. I've seen more people have success with these, but it's all personal.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-06-04 12:40
I seem to prefer the 4 and 41/2 V12 for my m15 and 4 Rue lepics.
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sea Galan
Date: 2008-06-04 16:43
I have been using a Vandoren 5JB Profile 88 and I'm very happy with it. I do use a #2 ML reed. I have tried all the other mps mentioned here and have decided that for my kind of playing the 5JB is the best. Very easy playing and maybe it does not have the tone qualities of these other mps but it works for me. I play for fun and entertainement and I'm not a professional player, just an old tooter. Any feedback on the 5JB?
Carlos
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-06-06 04:27
Tom...
excellent information. Its amazing to me how some people will order one mp over the internet and try to make it work when they can try more and be more detailed.
I spent 2 and a half hours at a convention talking to Mr. Fobes and Lomax about their pieces and the differences in facings. I made sure I was well informed before making a purchase. I then obtained several mps to try for a week or so. I am very satisfied. Couldn't ask for anything more, well I could, but its nothing that can't be obtained through practice.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Genai
Date: 2017-09-19 16:59
For me one of the best clarinet mouthpieceso is the Vandoren M13 lyre. I am always trying new mouthpieces. I have yet to find any mouthpiece, including all of the Vandoren mouthpieces, that matches the tone of the M13 lyre. It's dark. You can play soft. You can play loud without blasting. Your tone won't spread. You won't fall in and out of tune. It's an amazing mouthpiece. You really cannot beat the price. It's amazing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
