 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2008-05-26 14:06
Hi all,
I've been pondering why my reeds don't last longer than they do. And I'm wondering if those with more knowledge would comment on my conclusions.
1. My saliva is highly mineralized, and my reeds last longer when I soak them in tap water, not in my mouth.
2. I note on the shower head a buildup of minerals (calcium?)
3. I suspect the constant wetting and drying of the reeds is causing such a mineral deposit in the tubules of the reed. I also suspect that internal deposit is a major shortener of the life of the reed (possibly coupled with bacteria).
4. I'm going to run a test over several months. I'll get a gallon distalled water, and put two drops of bleach in it. I'll use that water exclusively for wetting the reeds, and will see (of course, it'll just be a subjective evaluation) if this increases the length of time the reeds play well. (Prescription bottles seem to be the ideal size for wetting the reeds. They are small enough to fit into the case.)
5. I note Dr. Henderson has a Reed-Life product, which helped a little, but I don't think it is able to remove the deposits in the interior tubules of the reed: thus my efforts to find a way to reduce those deposits in the first place.
Vann Joe
(amateur)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-05-26 14:34
Try an ultrasonic cleaner......once a week. See if that does anything.
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2008-05-26 14:35)
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Author: richard1952
Date: 2008-05-26 17:33
You might try soaking in peroxide. This seems to work for me. Use the 3% solution like the kind you buy in the drug store. I read on a web site somewhere to soak for 3 to 5 minutes or longer if needed. Rinse after soaking.
richardseaman@cox.net
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-05-26 17:53
i wouldn't use bleach if i were you. bleach is a VERY corrosive chemical. and your eating it too.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-05-26 19:09
I encourage my students to use tap water to wet their reeds, as I do instead of soaking it in their mouth. Saliva has enzymes in it that break down a reed faster then water. I don’t think that tap water breaks down cane because even though I rotate my clarinet reeds they often last me for months and sometimes a year or more, on rotation. I use the same bass clarinet reed for several months at a time, and though I always have several in reserve I don’t rotate them so they get played for weeks and often months. I use tap water to wet them too. It might depend on the type of water you have where you live. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2008-05-26 19:38
Hi,
Thanks for the input so far!
Our tap water here is deep well water which is not filtered at all, and not chlorinated. Thus the idea of using 2 drops bleach per gallon of distilled water as an anti-bacterial agent. However, I note that Dr. Henderson's Reed-Life product uses something similar to peroxide (dihydrogen dioxide). I'll ponder putting a little (? couple table spoons?) of peroxide in a gallon of the distilled water instead of the bleach.
Where would a person get a ultrasonic cleaner? And would that remove mineralization from the tubules in the cane itself?
Thanks!
Vann Joe
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-05-26 21:41
(Disclaimer - I sell ReedLife)
I would not recommend using, on a regular basis, either drug store hydrogen peroxide or bleach because both will remove the carbohydrates that ultimately make the reed flexible. ReedLife has humectants to counteract this process but will do little to remove minerals other than the peroxide in distilled water base. Saliva does not have enzymes that will break down cellulose and cause reed failure.
Rinsing your reeds in distilled water after use will do more to remove minerals. The major causes of reed fatigue in my view are the mechanical breaking of inter-cellulose bonds due to vibration and the buildup of dead skin cells from lips which clog the reed and inhibit vibration. Rinsing will help IMO prolong reed function by removing minerals and some of the dead skin detritus - infrequent use of hydrogen peroxide will also oxidize this material and remove it. No need to add an antibacterial to the jug of distilled water, which you can get at the grocery store, because it is sterile - just pour some into a juice glass for each use. Just soaking for 15 minutes should remove minerals throughout the reed without need of an ultrasonic machine.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-05-26 23:12
I too would recommend demineralized/distilled water (or is there a difference?).
It will dissolve the minerals in the reed until an equilibrium sets in. Then it is not toxic (neither to you or the environment), it is cheap, and it won't do any damage if inadvertently spilled.
--
Ben
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Author: richard1952
Date: 2008-05-27 00:21
Have you ever tried playing a synthetic reed? They don't absorb anything.
richardseaman@cox.net
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-05-27 01:40
"why my reeds don't last longer than they do"
A basic question is how long should reeds last and secondly what makes you think yours don't last as long as other players' reeds. The ca on the shower head simply means the shower has hard water coming to it and this probably has nothing to do with your saliva or your supposed reed problem. I agree that rinsing your reeds in water when you are done playing is a good idea. Simply pull the reed between your thumb and forefinger after rinsing it and store it in a reed holder.
Bob Draznik
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2008-05-27 13:05
Hi,
Thanks all for your input. Bouncing ideas off those more knowledgable is very helpful. Based on the input, this is what I'll try:
1. I'll continue to moisten a reed in water, not the tap water but distilled water, nothing added.
2. I change reeds about every 30 minutes during practice to rotate them. Following practice, which can be from 1 to 4 hours, I'll soak all the reeds I've used for 15 minutes in a fresh glass of distilled water, then put onto microscope slides to dry.
3. I suspect the osmosis alone, as Dr. Henderson suggested, will sufficiently clean the reeds.
4. I don't recall where I read it -- Bonade, Russianoff, or Hasty -- that a properly broken in reed should give 20 hours of playing time. I am not getting that, and I suspect it is my heavily mineralized saliva that is the culprit.
Thanks for the input, all!
Vann Joe
(amateur)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-05-27 13:50
"my heavily mineralized saliva ..."
What proof do you have that your saliva is "heavily mineralized"? If you think it's from the Ca in the tap water you may be misled.
Bob Draznik
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2008-05-27 20:40
soaking for 15 minutes after playing sounds like way too long. the reed will absorb too much water and warp. Also, putting them flat side down on glass while wet may cause them to warp even more. I would let them dry flat side up, and store them in a reed case that has grooves, so there is some air circulation under the reed and it dries more evenly. also, no need to wet the butt end of the reed.
Lori
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-05-27 21:12
For what it's worth, my experience with soaking reeds in water has been nothing but a positive boon for reed life. I am a little curious to know why, but at my age, all that matters is that it works.
As for the most recent comment about "over soaking," I have found that once a reed has been broken in (3 to 7 days - depending on the prevailing relative humidity) you can soak the heck out of a reed and there should be no warping at all. I try to pre-soak 5 minutes before playing but I've left reeds in water for up to 20 minutes with nothing but good results.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-05-27 21:52
> 4. I don't recall where I read it -- Bonade, Russianoff, or Hasty -- that a
> properly broken in reed should give 20 hours of playing time. I am not
> getting that, and I suspect it is my heavily mineralized saliva that is the
> culprit.
I'm getting roughly 30 hours out of mine, and I don't break them in at all. When one's "done", I take the next from the box, lick it, clamp on and get going for another 30-odd hours.
After practice, I rinse them unter water, use my thumb to rub off dirt, swipe it through a folded towel and put it away after say three minutes' drying (while I swab and disassemble the clarinet). That's all, if at all.
--
Ben
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2008-05-28 17:34
BobD,
Dentists have told me my saliva is much more mineralized than others. In the Army I had work done on a Friday, and then on Monday the dentist could not visually identify which tooth he had worked on.
I guess I'm very particular about the reeds I play on. Although I can play on almost any reed, I don't enjoy playing if I have to struggle with each note to make it speak properly.
As I see it, you evaluate the reeds on two aspects: the quality of the sound it produces and the feel of the reed as you play. To me, both are important.
I like a reed whose sound is both mellow but with an vibrant edge, and which speaks easily at all dynamics and in all ranges. Such a reed allows me a wide range of colors. I am very particular when it comes to reeds. :-)
For the past year I'm been using Zonda 2 1/2 D or strength 3 in Vandoren V12 or Rue Lepic on a Richard Hawkins B mouthpiece. I take care (a set methodology) to break them in, and adjust them via fine sandpaper, reed rush -- which I grow -- and the Reed Wizard. On the face of the reed, near the heel, I number each one, and use red rubber bands to afix to a microscope slide those of the best quality, and yellow rubber bands for those of a lesser quality, and drop into a reject box those that don't meet either category. I'm very particular with reeds. :-)
Best wishes,
Vann Joe
(amateur)
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