 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-05-22 13:19
In the recent thred about clear Buffet clarinets, Chloe wrote,
>>I imagine some of these instruments ended up with scratched bores from cheap swabs. Or, perhaps, would become yellowed or cloudy from oxidizing over the years?
>>
That comment gives me an idea for an experiment that wouldn't involve damaging a real clarinet. Is it possible to buy clear plastic tubes or pipes, at a mass market store such as Home Depot, that would be the equivalent of plastic used in clarinets? It might be interesting to cut several tube-lengths of clear plastic and run a different type of bore swab through each one numerous times to see what would happen. Drawback: a deadly boring experiment! But it would be interesting to know.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-05-22 13:33
Surely the main problem is not cheap swabs, but swabs that have picked up pieces of grit by being dropped on the floor or transported in a dirty bag.
Also, the damage may not be visible scratching, but wear. This might not be visible to the eye.
Finally, I wonder whether plastic clarinets are more or less susceptible to swab damage than wooden ones are. My guess - and it is only a guess - is that wood is more vulnerable.
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Author: Jacob S
Date: 2008-05-23 01:11
Or even better, use a machine to relieve boredom. Or even better, test different swabbing techniques (bore to bell, bell to bore, etc.), and compare the wear and tear on different kinds of clarinets. If any clarinet company could prove an experiment such as this, they could market equipment based off of really strong support...
Does swabbing over time make problems in the bore for plastic/rubber clarinets as it seems to in wood ones (like the barrel being warped or something)?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-05-23 15:03
"Does swabbing over time make problems in the bore for plastic/rubber clarinets as it seems to in wood ones (like the barrel being warped or something)?"
Warping is not caused by friction or abrasion, but by the movement of the wood due to the natural effects of humidity.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-05-26 19:22
Use a silk swab that does not have an unprotected metal weight and you can swab to your hearts content, just keep it clean. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: LesterV
Date: 2008-05-26 20:15
Lelia,
I haven't seen clear rigid tubing at Home Depot but it is readily available from McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com). I have used polycarbonate tubing from them which I adapted to a mouthpiece for some tuning experiments. The only problem is that it isn't available with a bore diameter very close to a clarinet. You have a choice of 0.500 or 0.625 inch bore.
Lester Via
Springfield, VA
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-05-27 01:46
Lelia...by the time there is any degradation of the bore you will be too old to see it.....IF you use a silk swab. I do believe the cotton pull through swabs formerly supplied with some clarinets are less desirable than the silk ones....for more than one reason.
Bob Draznik
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Author: donald
Date: 2008-05-27 11:00
In fact, Buffet already hires someone to do this- much in the same way that aeroplanes are tested, no Buffet model can go into production until after it has undergone a rigorous testing regime that includes passing a swab through the bore for the equivilant of 25 years average usage... Someone is hired to do this- it takes more than a week of passing the swab through the instrument, which is then carefully inspected for damage etc
For more information, check out
www.incrediblyboringjobs.com
dn
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-05-27 12:25
Bob Draznik wroite,
>>Lelia...by the time there is any degradation of the bore you will be too old to see it.....IF you use a silk swab. >>
That's about what I'd figured. I do use silk and on further reflection, I think I'll leave the repetitive experiments up to Buffet, et al. I don't think my new editor would accept "I was running a swab through a plastic tube 400 times" as an excuse for turning a review in late.
;-)
>>
I do believe the cotton pull through swabs formerly supplied with some clarinets are less desirable than the silk ones....for more than one reason.
>>
Back in the 1960s, new Conn clarinets (and I think some other brands) came with chamois swabs attached to fairly heavy cords with naked metal weights. I've thrown away a few of those but maybe I'll keep the next one and test it for lead. I suspect it'll flunk that test. I think it would probably flunk the scratch-and-maim test, too. The chamois swabs in stores today have plastic-covered weights, but I still don't like the idea of pulling something that hefty and tough through the bore.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2008-05-27 12:26)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-05-27 14:04
A chamois swab was the only swab that ever got hung up on my register tube...and it was during the intermission of a concert. It was a real problem getting it out. All leathers swell when wetted....probably why leather pads work so well.
Bob Draznik
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-05-28 14:56
Donald- "In fact, Buffet already hires someone to do this [... ...] passing the swab through the instrument, which is then carefully inspected for damage etc"
You are joking, right???
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-05-28 18:38
(Disclaimer - I sell a unique silk swab but has nothing to do with the answer)
Another approach would be to measure the coefficient of friction of various materials - e.g. cotton, microfiber, silk, chamois, etc. - against a wood surface. This would possibly tell a person which material had the lowest and highest coefficient of friction and therefore the relative abrasiveness of a swab made of that material.
There are various desirable attributes which might also be analytically measured such as the absorbency of the material and the rate of drying for a material, ease of pull, and tendency to get stuck on the register tube.
Another variable which would be difficult to determine, but is important, would be the swab design and amount of contact area (the material actually in contact with the bore due to the squishing of the material when it enters the bore) and the resulting "edge effect" which are the edges of the folded swab that are actually in contact with the wood. The length, and to some degree the width of the swab will also affect the amount of swab material in contact with the bore.
I am not sure that you could model these various parameters adequately but several factors might sway your choice of swab materials but would probably only be relevant if you abrade the bore for about 100 years
continuously with any swab.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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