 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Afridicy
Date: 2008-05-03 22:46
Hi, I am a freshman high school clarinet student and my mom recently purchased a slightly used R13 Bb Clarinet on Ebay. (Yes I know, you're not suppose to buy stuff on Ebay, but I did buy my E11 clarinet from Ebay and it worked really well [Region Band Twice], and this R13 seller had like a 100% rating based on several HUNDRED reviews...)
Anyways, when we recieved our clarinet today, I noticed that on the upper joint C# key, there is an extra silver stick/piece branching out vertically from the C# key.
Pic:
-------- (C# key)
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| <-------Vertical silver piece sticking out of it in middle (Kind of like a "T")
****Grrr, computer keeps pushing the verticle lines all the way to the left, but it's suppose to be centered in the middle xD
But the extra branching out piece extends down into the lower joint all the way to the first key pad.
I found this quite unusual as I googled pictures of R13 clarinets and none of the pictures had this extra piece. Is it suppose to be there? Or is it like an addition? What exactly is its purpose if its suppose to be there?
Also, is the R13 clarinet suppose to have the serial number on its barrel becuase I thought the serial number was suppose to be only near the thumbrest area... o.O
Thank you,
Clarinet Student that is tired of her parents bickering over this stupid clarinet problem even though it does have a return policy and decided to end their bickering by asking people who actually know how a clarinet is suppose to work/look like vs. her parents assuming and "reasoning" on why that piece is there
Post Edited (2008-05-03 22:48)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-05-03 22:51
It's an add-on to help facilitate certain trills. If you go to the Steven Fox web site (look on the right side of this page under INSTRUMENTS) you can find such add on parts for clarinets. http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/Accessories.html
Some of the add-on buffet barrels have serial numbers on them. The Buffet-Muncy barrel I bought this year came with a serial number on it. The normal R13 serial number spots are on the bottom/back side of each of the two main tubes.
If the clarinet checks out OK with your teacher, keep it.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2008-05-03 23:00)
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Author: Molloy
Date: 2008-05-03 22:58
I'll throw in my two cents before the people who really know their R13's chime in.
It sounds like your C#/G# key has a touchpiece so it can be played by the right-hand 1st finger. These are not unusual on albert clarinets but it doesn't seem to make sense with the boehm system. Does it look like it's been soldered on? Maybe the original key has been replaced with one from an albert?
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Author: Afridicy
Date: 2008-05-03 23:01
Oh I see on the website this add on, but the extra add on piece kind of looks like the octave key on the back of the first joint and its circular at the end, the extra piece on mines is just a thin stick... o.O But does it still function the same? (Sorry if this is a stupid question...)
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Author: Afridicy
Date: 2008-05-03 23:04
Honestly, I have no idea what an albery or boehm system is BUT it does look like the extra add on key has been smoldered on the C#/G# key as the color of it is slightly lighter than the rest of the keys on the clarinet.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-05-03 23:06
It's a lower register C-Db trill, upper register G-Ab trill and altissimo E-F trill key.
It'll make your altissimo E-F trill an absolute doddle - trill the C#/G# key extension with RH finger 1 instead of trilling with your LH pinky on the normal C#/G# touch.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-05-03 23:09
The R13 is a Boehm system clarinet. Albert system clarinets were from the 19th century (though you can still find new ones being made) and have a much simpler key layout. The Boehm system tried to remedy many problems that the Albert system's keying caused in certain difficult passages.
It could be that the add-on is silver plated, while the rest of your keywork is nickel-plated. That would allow for the different appearances.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2008-05-03 23:19)
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Author: Afridicy
Date: 2008-05-03 23:13
Ok thank you guys very much, but now my mom has more questions about it.
On the barrel, there are the words "R13 B660" imprinted on lower end of it, my mom is worried that the barrel is not original or something because of the imprinted words as my E11 clarinet did not have that similar imprint on its barrel.... Is it suppose to be there?
Also, there are several brown/bronze spots on the keys of my clarinet and I am pretty sure those are tarnishes, but I was just wondering is there anyway to remove those bronze colored most likely tarnished spots?
Thanks!
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-05-03 23:18
B: this clarinet barrel is designed for a B-flat Clarinet. Clarinets in the key of A use barrels which have had their bores reamed differently. 660 refers to the length of the barrel. It's 66 mm long, which is standard for an R13. R13 barrels have had these designations on them for a few years, now.
As to the spots, it could be tarnish, or it could be spots where the plating is worn, and you are seeing the base metal underneath. It won't affect anything as far as the playing characteristics of the instrument..
Again, have a qualified teacher or a trusted repair technician look it over if you have doubts. So far, I see nothing to bve concerned over.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2008-05-03 23:20)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-05-03 23:21
The R13 is the entry level pro Buffet clarinet and the E11 is made for Buffet by Schreiber in Nauheim, Germany.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-05-03 23:24)
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Author: Afridicy
Date: 2008-05-03 23:35
Ok, thank you SO much for all of your help, I just have one FINAL question:
According to the serial number, the clarinet was made in 2003-ish, isn't it kind of wierd that in 5 years the keys would already be worned/tarnished? Is there anyway to fix it? Or am I just getting too suspicious/paranoid?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-05-03 23:47
Plating wear and corrosion is variable depending on the individual who owns it - they could have corrosive perspiration which will make plating wear much more quickly in comparison to someone with a neutral pH. And the atmospheric conditions are a contributing factor, as well as the type of glue used in case manufacture and also the sulphur content of the case covering and the sulphur from the mouthpiece.
But whatever you do, plese DO NOT use a liquid metal polish (Brasso, Silvo, etc) to shine the keys up with while they're all in situ - it can get into the key barrels and bind the keys up solid, as well as making it difficult to get the screws out when the keys need to come off for it to be cleaned out.
Use a polishing cloth impregnated with a polishing agent (and specifically for silver or silver plated cutlery), or an old cotton T-shirt that has been washed before being torn up into rags to buff the keys with.
With the impregnated polishing cloth, keep it in it's plastic bag after use to prevent it collecting dust and grit, and never wash it. You can dampen it slightly with a spray bottle (only two squirts is enough) to reactivate the polishing agent.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-05-04 00:12
To add to Chris' comments, I have very acidic skin, and the nickel-plated R13 I had (1971 vintage) began to wear/corrode fairly quickly. Best thing is to polish as Chris describes, and wipe it down with a clean, soft cloth after playing.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-05-04 08:16
The "brown spots" are the copper plating on the base metal that allows the final nickel plating to adhere better and smoother. They are common.
Bob Draznik
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Author: donald
Date: 2008-05-04 10:12
My R13 (new in 1998) developed these "brown/bronze spots" on the register key, the A key and on one or two of the rings after about 2 years of use (4 to 5 hours a day of playing). I have very dry hands so imagine this is from "wear" rather than from acid from my perspiration.
i actually like the bronze colour and wouldn't mind if the keys were all that colour.
dn
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-05-04 15:10
recent r13s which are nickel plated have a annoying tendency to have the plating wear through. there has been much discussion on this. search the archives here, we have had several threads on this subject. buffet is not puttling a thick enough layer of nickel on them lately; lately being , oh, the last 15 years or so. silver plated instruments don't seem to have this issue. its cosmetic only, it won't affect the sound. you can have them spot replated if it bothers you. I had 2 keys on one of mine replated recently, plus the entire top joint repadded, the total was about $110. The replating part of the job was only about $35 or so. it does take a 2-3 weeks as the keys have to be sent off to a replating shop.
>R13 B660
this is not the serial number
it identifies the barrel as for a R-13, B-flat, 66.0 mm long. e.g., a standard, stock R13 barrel.
afridicy, you appear to be in the houston area. Butler instrument restoration is near you - contact him if you want an independent technician to check it out for you. http://www.cork-and-pad.woodwind.org/ ; or as others said, have your teacher check it out.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-05-04 21:15
You seem to be complaining about this horn under two different names and postings. Is this true? See my comments on "the other " posting.
Bob Draznik
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Author: cj228
Date: 2008-05-05 04:00
I did not post using different names. My daughter started this thread. She was out today. I had more questions that I would like input from other memebers. I thought I was not supposed to post under my daughter's name so I started another thread posted more questions about the clarinet. I did not know this was against the rule of this site. My post was deleted by the administrator. Now I'm back to the original thread started by my daughter.
I have one question about this extra metal piece that I have not received any response. Will this extra piece afftect the resale value of this clarinet considering it is an add-on piece with a different finish ( dull looking instead of shiny)?
I asked two clarinet repair men about replating of keys. One told me it costs about $200 depending on the silver price. One told me it cost about $300 to replate all the keys. So the average would be $250. Is this price too high? The clarinet we bought has plating loss on all six rings and also on four other places. Do I need to have all keys replated or just the parts that are discolored?
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-05-05 04:08
if you have a touchpiece, that is a fantastic add on and a kudos to your instrument. It will definitely make passages easier to play on, you just have to get used to it. or heck, you can take it off and send it to me and i'll be happy.
but yes to reassure your purchase, it sounds like an r13 through your descriptions and that it has been well loved and played because the key plating has worn off. the concern of plating that wears off rapidly is what chris said above: your diet consists of acidic foods, and thus is transferred throughout your body. salt intake and sweat also plays a factor as well. Won't affect your playing, but the area under your fingers will feel rough and jagged unless its replated.
i hate when parents fight about nothing.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-05-05 07:34
I really wouldn't worry about resale value based on a touchpiece. THe clarinet is an instrument your daughter should be able to keep for years, if not for the rest of her playing career. If the instrument is otherwise acoustically and mechanically sound, there is no real reason to get rid of it. Buffet R13 clarinets have a long history of being quite good instruments, but that is based on using them as musical instruments, rather than investment vehicles. .
The true value of the instrument is in the better sound she will produce with a quality clarinet, and the enjoyment she gets from using it. Used clarinets hardly ever appreciate in value very much. In most cases, you will not get what you put into it a few years down the road. High-quality string instruments appreciate, clarinets do not. The value is in the use of the instrument. If having the touchpiece is that much of a concern to you regarding the value of the instrument, have the technician order a replacement key from Buffet-Crampon in Jacksonville, and replace it.
I would consider the extra touchpiece to be something of added value, rather than detrimental to the value (or the functioning) of the clarinet. This all seems much ado about nothing, but maybe I am looking at it from a different perspective: I still have my R13 that I bought new in 1973. My daughter is now playing it, and sounding better than I ever did!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2008-05-05 08:15)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-05-05 11:19
Thanks for the clarification regarding the postings, it was rather confusing. The fact that the seller called the barrel marking a serial number is an indication he does not know much about clarinets. If the horn were mine my only concern would be that the real serial number...whatever it is....is contained on both the top and bottom sections. My comment on the deleted post also expressed the opinion that $26 for shipping and handling was excessive unless it was shipped Priority Mail. The photo on the eBay listing made it look like the alignment piece between the sections was bent, evidently this is not the case. If instead it is a "touchpiece" this, along with the almost new looking case and the plating "problem" would, in my opinion, increase the value of the horn rather than decrease it. All in all it sounds like you made a good deal. Had the horn been listed by the owner and containing an explanation about the touchpiece it probably would have sold for more than what you paid for it.
Bob Draznik
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