 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-05-02 21:11
<Spock, lifting an eyebrow>
Fascinating.
Maybe I should patent my 5 cents thumb cushion as well. Or invent the first dishwasher-proof clarinet.
--
Ben
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-05-02 21:34
When I see "patent[ed etc] " I can't help myself, I must do some searching also. As they say in commercials on TV, "but first", I'd better read the 55,xxx [1895?] you found, GBK, TKS. Some of the more recent lig pats have a "laundry list" of cited refs, so when I have an hour or so to look we'll see. I wonder if any inventor has become rich from a lig pat ??? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-05-02 21:56
Don Berger wrote:
> I
> wonder if any inventor has become rich from a lig pat ??? Don
My money is on Phil Rovner ...GBK
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Author: george
Date: 2008-05-02 22:31
GBK,
You must have run completely out of something to do!
G
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-05-02 22:57
Have these ever been produced? The ligature actually looks quite good.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-05-03 03:23
A Tip Of The Hat, GBK, with a brief look at this jungle, I'll agree its the first US lig patent. But Lorenzini in 4,185,535 [perhaps where you ran onto Cad-- 555,561 ?] had 2 [ only slightly] older DE pats cited as refs by the examiner, and I'd be surprised if there weren't even older FR pats. Perhaps the use of string ligs began in antiquity, I wonder how Stadler and Sax kept reeds in place, prob. before patenting had any economic "stature". I'll look in Al Rice's "Clasical Cl" for further enlightment. Agree re: Rovner, Bonade also? Much Fun, Regards, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-05-03 11:01
"I wonder how Stadler and Sax kept reeds in place"
Don, looking at surviving tutors from Stadler's time covering the periods from Mozart's death to the early 1800s we know that players used string all around Europe, one facsimile I have from 1802 even has diagrams on how to tie it on to the mouthpiece. Sax would have used the metal ligature invented by Muller, but that is not to say that string wasn't being used elsewhere in the 1840s.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-05-03 11:10
Hi,
I could hold off no longer:
The challenge of holding the reed
Against the mouthpiece our need
With string and/or brass
Some attempts seemed so crass
But vibrations were finally freed
HRL
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-05-03 12:31
Phil Rovner, Bay, Spriggs and Bonade
Their ligatures first looked so odd.
Harsh tone they would mend.
Our sound would transcend.
While they raked in cash by the wad.
...GBK
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-05-03 13:29
We have poets and know it, TKS to cl addiction [and above info]. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-05-03 13:33
The combination string/screw ligature is made today under the brand name Viba-String. See http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=68353&t=68330.
The combination stand and reed holder was recommended and possibly made by Stanley Hasty. In high school, I studied with a Hasty student, who made his own reeds and kept partly finished reeds in the slots. Perhaps a Hasty student could give us the details.
I have the thumb rest attachment (which I think is still available). There are problems:
-- Most thumb rests are too low to begin with, and this is thick enough to make my hand cramp up.
-- To make it fit, you have to scrape the cork off the bottom of the thumb rest, which makes it uncomfortable when you don't use the attachment.
-- The offset is quite short, so the weight of the instrument rests along the edge of the nail rather than just below it, which is uncomfortable.
-- The bottom of the attachment is rounded, which puts all the weight on a small area.
-- You have to take it off to put the instrument in the case.
Ken Shaw
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-05-06 23:58
There's actually an older (1890) clarinet ligature patent than that one. although you won't find it on Google. It's No. 425,521 (use www.pat2pdf.org to view). They don't call it a ligature, but that's what it is--a ligature with an attachable "cap." In fact, they don't call it a clarinet--they spell it "clarionet." That's the one of the problems with patent searching--you can't always count on finding things with the right keywords.
While we're on the topic of patented ligatures, 3,410,710, 3,205,753, and 3,433,113 are of some historical interest.
But for the best seller of all time, my bet is with no. 2,791,929.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-05-07 00:52
I have seen an orchestra clarinetist here in Tokyo that uses a ligature that is similar to the one in the patent- not exactly the same, but close. The difference being that his has a "reed plate" on the bottom, but the free moving strings are essentially the same. He designed and made it himself, as I understand.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-05-07 19:03
TKS, mrn, for fine pat searching, and pointing out some of the difficulties in exploring this strange "art". Just the mention of "reed protector" caused me to remember my old "flip" protector-lig, found it !, has "Pat 5-27-24" on it, from which, using your search results, I found US 1,495,322, made partial copy [another story of difficulty], which ?licensed to Micro?, is it, and mine has an improvement, a "lift tab" for ?rapid finger action? [Dixie Band?] use. At minimum wage, my further search would be worth $20+ ! UGH, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-05-08 12:33
Interesting thread! Thanx for the research! Btw, one of the many things I enjoy about ordering pads and other parts from Ferree's Tools is that the mailings of catalogue updates often include copies of old patent drawings, for all sorts of wind instruments. My nomination for the most bizarre-looking innovations goes to Martin in the 1920s-1940s. I don't know whether Martin patented any clarinet ligatures then, but they made some unusual saxophone octave key mechanisms that work brilliantly well, among other things.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-05-08 12:52
Yer soo rite, Lelia, A fine saxer-DB friend allowed me to tinker a bit on his old, pro, Martin alto, which had a "different" double octave key structure, so I'll look into their patents over the weekend to see "whats out there". If you have any numbers. Lelia, please post them since Martin is quite a common last [and first] name and may require some definition for reasonable retrieval. Will also be in touch, B B, Velly interesting, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-05-09 12:54
Don, while shovelling out my office annex, oops, I mean guest bedroom, I evicted the folders of patent designs from Ferree's to one of my file cabinets in the outdoor studio. You've got me curious now, so I'll find those files in the next few days and post anything about specific Martin patents and/or clarinet ligs.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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