 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: atasic
Date: 2008-04-24 19:25
does anybody know something about reedmachine.......recomendation?
Thanks
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Author: Daniel Frazelle
Date: 2008-04-24 21:33
There is a new machine that will be available very soon by Uhl Technik.
http://www.uhl-technik.de/
It is the "Reed Profiling Machine RPM 68" found on the right side of the screen once you enter the site.
If you have any other questions, I know quite a bit about its developement and you can email me.
Daniel Frazelle
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-04-25 16:41
Dilutis makes a reed machine. Greg James also in Toronto, Canada.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: atasic
Date: 2008-04-25 21:51
thanks for the info ....
I contacted the uhl techink and they told me that the price of their machine is 1170 Euro which I think is very EXPENSIVE......I guees is good though, ...what about reed machine by DiLutis? how is working.....is it good or...?
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-04-25 23:08
The Reed Machine by Dilutis is something like $600. Considering that every decent bassoon profiler is at LEAST $1,500, I think it's unrealistic to believe that the Dilutis machine is of high enough quality. These things need to be carefully engineered and of good materials.
If bassoonists are willing and expected to pay as much as they do for their reed making tools, I don't see how we can just throw up our hands when we see a big price tag. This new machine looks interesting and it's from a known engineer. Uhl has a reputation for making good tools, so I'd be far more willing to believe this is a proper reed making device.
Does anyone else know anything about this new machine?
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2008-04-26 00:29
The Dilutis machine works quite well. It's a little quirky, but it is a hand tool and there's a technique to using it. It requires a bit of practice. Also, I've personally had little luck with copying existing reeds without ruining them. I've had great success with a metal guide I've purchased from Mr. Dilutis. I'm curious about the Uhl machine, but that's too expensive for it to be realistic for me. Also, it's a hand also, so it's expected that it would take some adjustment time to learn to use it correctly. After reading about the Uhl machine, it seems that it may have a more sensitive template than the Dilutis machine though... I feel that the Dilutis machine is just as well engineered as the ReeDuAl, but eliminates the sandpaper and belt variables. I find it produces a more consistent product. Essentially, the only variable for me now is the cane itself. Maybe I'll suddenly have 1500+ dollars someday to give the Uhl machine careful consideration, but that's pretty unlikely for the foreseeable future.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-04-26 00:41
"I feel that the Dilutis machine is just as well engineered as the ReeDuAl, but eliminates the sandpaper and belt variables."
The Dual is a horribly engineered product. There are so many problems with the machine that the resulting consistency is laughable.
It always amazes me how much clarinetists are able to justify spending on mouthpieces, barrels, and bells but when it comes to the most important element of the setup they balk at any sizable up-front cost. If you feel the Dilutis works well for you, that's fine. I would respectfully challenge the results, but to each his own. I do think, however, that writing off a reed machine based solely on the cost we're talking about here is short-sighted. Luckily for you personally , you are a rare lucky one who is happy with the cheaper Dilutis.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2008-04-26 06:29
The Dual is a medicore product is comparison to the Dilutis machine IMHO. Perhaps the Uhl machine is superior, but this isn't a realistic option for me. I wonder how many clarinetists would find it realistic.
I can tell you that you'll find a ReeDuAl in the inventory of many fine professional players and university/conservatory teachers. Some of them rely on it exclusively for their reeds.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2008-04-26 07:24
The newest reeduals are extremely well machined. Perhaps they are improved from past models, but they are exactly the same concept. Many great performers make their reeds with it, including symphony and opera principals of the highest caliber. The same can not be said about Dilutis machine. i feel the dilutis is far too imprecise to really put a good finish on a reed, or replicate perfect numbers every time.
On the other hand this can be done with the reed dual. This complaint about the sand paper and belt being an issue is baloney! Every reed I finish on the dual, i change the piece of sand paper. There, i have eliminated the variable of how old the sand paper is. I always finish the reed with a brand new strip of sand paper. Obviously a time consumer, but worth it for the end results, which are amazing reed with excellent longevity. I am currently making a modified olivieri reed, however this changes when i get bored with one reed.
Perhaps the Uhl machine will be a significant improvement over dilutis for a hand machine. the electric power wheel of a reedual seems much more efficient. I hope this is the case because this concept should work. The thing i don't like about it is the model reed being a metal or plastic template. The experience I had with the dilutis made me reluctant to put any playable reeds on it, since it generally chewed them up. With the reedual, you can use a comerical reed or other hand made cane reed countless times, probably thousands of times. The reed is not damaged. This is really important because I like to use several different model reeds.
I also think the position that the knife cut of the dilutis is preferable to the sand paper cut of the reedual is baloney. Dilutis supporters hypothesize the sand paper damages the xylem structure. To this I respond that scratching around the tip of your reed with that dilutis machine has a far greater chance of damages the xylem structure than the precise, high speed cutting wheel.
With the price of reeds rising, and the quality remaining suspect, great time to start making your own, if you can procure the good cane.
The dual is 650 now, its really the good way to go.
Post Edited (2008-04-26 07:37)
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Author: atasic
Date: 2008-04-26 07:57
...I have tried to find the info ( web site....etc) about the Reed Dual machine without succes.....
Anyway, as Rod Rubber said, dual machine cost 650$ which is more than double cheaper than the Uhl machine........
where you can order it from ( reed dual)?
Thanks
Alex
Post Edited (2008-04-26 08:02)
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Author: Joseph LeBlanc
Date: 2008-04-28 03:21
You can find more info on the reedual here:
http://hometown.aol.com/georgeorrabco/myhomepage/business.html
I've been making reeds on it for a little over a year and I've been getting better results than I ever had on V12s. I was performing on my own reeds in about a week, they were that good.
That said, I have an Uhl Reed Machine on order and I hope to get it very soon.
The reedual has served me well but it does not accurately copy from the model to the blank. It gets very close, but does not yield consistent measurements from reed to reed. I was able to get improved accuracy after adjusting the guide block to be more parallel with the cutting wheel(non parallel axis are a problem on the dual, check yours with a level). When you are dealing in 10ths and 100ths of a millimeter however it is difficult to adjust it perfectly without special tools. Canadian toolmaker Greg James has retrofitted a dual with fine adjustment screws and parallel guides so that you can be sure the machine is fine tuned before you start. Not sure what he charges for this...wouldn't be surprised if cost more than the reedual itself. His own reed profiler is fitted with such guides and costs about 1800CND if I remember correctly.
I'm a believer that the quality of the cane is a bigger factor in good reeds than a perfectly shaped vamp, that is why I think the reedual has served me so well.
At this point in my reed making, I can see that even better results are possible than what I'm getting off the dual and if the Uhl Machine is as accurate as I'm hoping, I think that will be the next step for me.
Cost is a concern and a barrier for many clarinetists who want to get into reed making. The fact is that bassoonists have no commercial options and our box reeds can be pretty decent...so it might be hard for some players to justify the cost. The Uhl may seem very expensive, but I honestly believe that the price you pay for quality machining. It is also comparable in price to many bassoon profilers. It's also worth noting, the reedual was originally marketed to bassoonists yet I don't know of a single bassoonist who uses it.
It would be nice to see some major institutions invest in some fine quality reed making tools that clarinet students could share and learn reed making, much like bassoon and oboe studios do. Many teachers have an old dual lying around and some students learn with that, but my sense is some students don't get good results in the beginning because of poorly calibrated tools and ultimately never give reed making a serious shot.
I should be getting the Uhl Reed Profiler in a few weeks and I'll be sure to post some pics and my thoughts.
Best,
Joe LeBlanc
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Author: jeffreyc
Date: 2008-04-28 14:39
Thanks, this is great info. Anyone have contact information for Greg James in Toronto?
JeffreyC
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