 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: skjaeve
Date: 2008-04-22 08:53
I moved a few months ago and have just joined a band at the new place. They have more need for an alto sax player than a clarinetist, so I'll try to make the switch. Are there any particular pitfalls I should look out for when switching over? I'm not a good clarinetist, but I like playing.
Also, the band's saxes aren't in good shape. I've seen a lot of praise for Hanson clarinets here, and I noticed that they also sell saxes. Their cheapest alto saxophone is probably just within my expendable summer budget, do you think it's a decent instrument for the price?
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Author: kilo
Date: 2008-04-22 09:21
I've never played a Hanson sax but I'm sure their student model is acceptable; best thing is take your teacher or an experienced player to check it over with you.
If anything, your experience with the clarinet should help you, as the clarinet requires more control. The embouchure is similar ... but not exactly the same but you'll notice that and you'll probably adjust your bite to the sound. Listen to the sound! Fingerings are easier: the covered keys, the octave difference between the registers, fewer alternative fingerings to deal with.
I hope you'll be able to keep playing the clarinet even as you learn the new horn. It's always good to have a double, and there are things each instrument can do that the other can't. Have fun.
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2008-04-22 11:09
I don't play saxophone (main instrument). I was at a masterclass a few weeks back with Tom Walsh of Indiana (me on tenor) and he explained to me the difference between the sax and clarinet embouchure and it is greater than I thought. He used the same analogy most of us use, drinking through a straw, but a sax is a more loose embouchure like drinking soda through a straw, the chin is flat, and the corners aren't so tight. Another thing he said was the air stream, saxes should blow warm, not as focused air. Clarinet is like drinking a milkshake through a straw, with very firm corners and more of a pointed chin, and uses a steady focused stream of cool air.
To me that is the most important thing because many people try to play both and use one single embouchure and their tone isn't as great as it could be, their range, intonation, etc.
Post Edited (2008-04-22 19:55)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-04-22 12:36
Kilo said "Listen to the sound!" and is dead on the money.
SVC: There are far too many individuals who can play both clarinet and sax well to substantiate your argument. Some can use what they feel is the same embouchure (or may be the same emb.) with success, others change a great deal.
Learning Sax won't disturb your clarinet playing if your foundation on clarinet is solid.
This is quite similar to the once-a-year-thread about bass clarinet embouchure similarity/differences to soprano emb. There are many successful members of both camps.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-04-22 13:14
I disagree with the advice not to switch to saxophone. Lots of people who use this bulletin board play both. I'm one of them (as an amateur). Clarinet and sax make an excellent combination for a doubler, and doubling on more than one instrument makes a musician a lot more attractive to people who do the choosing. The instruments are enough alike to shorten the learning curve, but they feel different enough in the hands and mouth so that you're not likely to forget which one you're playing and try to use clarinet fingerings or forget the register break is an octave on sax, for instance.
You could try out the lousy available instruments long enough to find out if you want to spend money on something better. Switching to sax from clarinet is easier than the other way around, by the way. The clarinet is the more difficult instrument.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2008-04-22 13:16)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-22 14:38
Yeah, who would have thought?
I took up clarinet a couple of years after i'd been playing sax, though I did have clarinet lessons from an excellent clarinettist from fairly early on - so always get a good (and a specialist) teacher on anything as early as is possible instead of teaching yourself bad habits.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Kel
Date: 2008-04-22 17:13
Sax is an easy instrument to play, but a difficult one to play well. The embouchure is different, and the embouchure is the key to a good sax sound. I think it takes longer to develop a good sound on sax than it does on clarinet. Having said that, by all means take the opportunity to learn sax, but also continue to practice clarinet. The more versatile you are, the more chances to play with a variety of ensembles.
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2008-04-22 19:54
Oh my, I didn't notice my post said to NOT play saxophone, it should rather say I don't play saxophone (as in my main instrument). My argument about people being well or not well is based off two things, A--Tom Walsh discussing at masterclass that many people are ignorant to the difference between the two instruments, and B-- my own personal experience from watching kids in our class who are good musicians switch back and forth. That being said, I think playing sax is great. It is ALOT like clarinet just a difference in embouchure and airstream and that's it. I love playing sax. Go for playing sax.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-22 22:34
One thing you will find after taking up sax is how easily and fluently you'll be playing in keys of more than four sharps and flats, possibly even more fluently than you can on clarinet.
Go for the tone (same with clarinet), get a sound in mind that you like and try to emulate it as much as you can. Do some listening to all manner of sax players and you'll be the judge of what sound you like and what sound will be suitable for your situation. And also be adaptable so you can produce different sounds to suit different situations, and be able to select the sounds at an instant.
And whatever you do, always be in control of your playing (especially with volume and tone) and don't let yourself become branded as 'another sax player that's too loud'.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2008-04-23 02:03
Skjaeve,
As a devoted clarinet-saxophone-flute doubler here's my advice: The best thing you can do for yourself is to study with a saxophone teacher. It's the most direct way to establish a solid foundation on the instrument and avoid bad habits that can take more effort to fix further down the road.
I'd suggest that you check the Sax On The Web forum to see if anyone has posted information about Hanson saxophones. There are a good number of European sax guys on the forum. Some of them might know about Hanson. I'm not familar with that brand.
Roger
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-23 11:41
Hanson saxes are either Chinese or Taiwanese (as are the majority of student saxes nowadays), though if you're looking for a good student sax at a good price that will last you for several years before you plan to upgrade, the Jupiter 700 series saxes are about as good as they can get.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: monzamess
Date: 2008-04-23 16:37
I don't know the situation in Norway but conventional wisdom is to look for a used Yamaha YAS-23. They are typically well-built, have good intonation and tone, and a used in one good shape will cost about the same as a new but questionable-quality sax.
Mouthpiece choice is a big deal. You might get away with a clarinet-like embouchure on some configuration of equipment--I personally can not.
I recommend approaching it as a whole new quest, for which you have coincidentally developed your facial muscles, finger coordination, and music theory knowledge, putting you a few steps ahead of absolute beginners.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-04-23 18:21
Alto sax is not hard to pick up for clarinettists. The fingerings are basically like the upper register on clarinet. The main difficulty I had in going from clarinet to sax was getting out the low notes, because you need a rather loose embouchure for sax as compared to clarinet.
Also, playing sax will make your clarinet feel like a very small instrument when you switch back--kind of like switching between A and Bb clarinets, only more so.
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2008-04-23 18:47
Sax and clarinet are more alike than not. Yes, there are differences in the ideal embouchures for both, but for someone who isn't at an intermediate or advanced stage like yourself, it won't matter much.
Sax is much easier than clarinet in terms of producing notes and the fingering systems. So you should have fun transfering your clarinet knowledge to sax and then finding that the whole thing is not as complicated.
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2008-04-23 21:31
I am presently switching back and forth from clarinet to alto sax with a jazz band I play with at the Bulldog Cafe (yes). The alto sax is so much easier to play - doesn't take as much energy, but I don't like it near as well as the clarinet. The sax I have is a Spenser, made in Taiwan, but with a good mouthpiece, Yanagasawa. It has a nice tone and is very light. I'd much rather play the clarinet, my original instrument. The band wants a sax too so there you go. Since we are dixieland, blues, swing, the sax works well on some tunes but in my opinion, not all. And it seems so much louder. I am now looking for a used tenor, I prefer that sound to the alto.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-23 23:18
Please, whatever you do, DON'T EVER buy a cheap Chinese sax off the internet without being able to try it out first. There are good and bad, but just don't fall into the trap of buying a bad one as you'll never recover what you paid for it or even get rid of it.
I looked over a Chinese heap of crap earlier (engraved "Carmichael") and it was absolutely dire, and there's no hope of it ever being playable no matter how much time or money is wasted in trying to make it work.
Even if anyone did get the pads seating and get it all well regulated, the crook taper and the bore taper will make it impossible to play anything below E without it gurgling .The crook was so wide at the mouthpiece end the cork was sanded down to near nothing, and the mouthpiece wouldn't go on far enough for it to be in tune with itself (no matter how much grease was applied, it was still a very tight fit and in danger of breaking the mouthpiece by forcing it on).
So spend your money wisely by getting a good instrument and stick with a reputable make and bought from a reliable and respected source - new or used. There are plenty of good used saxes of all kinds on the market so you will be much better off with any of the well established makes, models or classics rather than some shiny new thing that doesn't do what it should.
And even more importantly, have it checked out by a player or teacher BEFORE you part with any cash. You don't want to spend over the odds for a worthless pile of ****e that'll only discourage you from playing.
Several players on here regularly play the older classics and swear by them - just to name a few: Selmer SBA and MkVI, King Super 20 and Zephyr, various Conns and Bueschers as well as more recent Yamaha, Yanigasawa and Keilwerth devotees. There are many others besides these, and you can always ask on here or SOTW what the contributors think of them, and if they're worthwhile having restored depending on the model or condition.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-04-23 23:59)
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2008-04-24 01:43
If you can find an older, used Evette & Schaeffer in decent shape (the model with a flower embossed on the bell-to-body brace) at a good price, you could have a bargain. They are essentially Buffet Super Dynactions with student-quality keywork.
I found one for a friend that plays very nicely, and for less money than a slightly used Yamaha YAS-23. I put it up against my Selmer SA-80 Serie II and was hard pressed to say it was a lesser horn. Intonation was actually better than on my Selmer.
For my needs (classical, jazz, shows), nothing beats an old Conn 26M, or its less fancy sibling, a Conn 6M. Conn 6Ms can still be found at somewhat decent prices but you might have to dig; 26Ms have become expensive. I wouldn't trade my 26M for any other sax.
<grumble>Collectors have driven the prices of many vintage saxophones to insane levels.</grumble>
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-04-24 02:49
I have many students using YAS23's, they are a good choice. However, I purchased a Yamaha YAS-62 for myself. Its more expensive, but IMO, worth the financial sacrifice. It plays beautifully. I really hate when I'm fighting an instrument- I'd rather the problems be of my own creation (as most of them are), and not due to a student horn's limitations. I've gotten to the point in life where I realize I shouldn't sacrifice when buying an instrument - save up and get the best one you can - it saves you a lot of pain in the practice room.
HTH,
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2008-04-24 02:51)
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