 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-04-11 11:04
Hi
My bass clarinet doesn't have articulated C#/G# but since that key is two parts unlike on soprano clarinets it should be possible to make it articulated.
I think an arm from the top key of the lower joint is simplest, so I just have to make sure it is in the right place for the movement of the keys without gaps to create double action. But the problem is, I use many fignerings with closed lower stack notes but open C#/G# key. Those would be impossible with articulated key. I don't want to give up the use of those fingerings, and although I never had a problem playing without articulated C#/G# it could be nice to have it occasionally (for some trills and tremolos).
So what I'm looking for is ideas to make an easily removable articulated C#/G# key. I have some ideas already but others would probably have more ideas.
Thanks!
Nitai
Post Edited (2008-04-11 11:09)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-04-11 11:35
Nitai,
I don't have any good ideas for you about how to make such a key, but I'm sure you're aware of one of the drawbacks of articulated keys in general (including those on saxophones) --- that they usually involve one spring on the key lever keeping the pad closed and another, weaker spring opening the pad when your finger depresses the lever --- thus a delicate balance between two opposing spring tensions is required for the mechanism to open properly when needed without leaking when closed. And, the pads are prone to sticking shut if there is crud on the pad. I had an embarrassing incident during an orchestra concert once when my C# pad stuck shut in exactly that manner during a solo part in a very quiet section of a piece. Given these considerations and the additional mechanical complexity of articulated mechanisms, I personally prefer the simplicity and reliability of a directly-operated key.
But, chacun à son goût, as they say.............
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-11 11:41
On Buffet Prestige basses the C#/G# key touch is heavily sprung to close the lightly open sprung C#/G# key cup so the basic articualted G# key configuration is already in place, athough there's no linkage from the RH main action to close it while closing RH 1 or 2. What is needed is a link fitted to make it a true articulated C#/G# as on Selmers (and on oboes and saxes).
I've had a (simple but effective) link fitted to the G# pad cup on my Buffet bass which makes for a true F#-G# trill - I've had a bar soldered onto it which connects with the underside of the linkage from the RH main action (the long Bb link) and has an adjusting screw on it which uses the head to make the contact with the underside of the RH linkage.
Though it should be possible (as the long Bb linkage piece from the RH main action is a fairly thick piece of metal) to have a detachable link to the G# cup fitted to it with grub screws, or some kind of clutch which can be disengaged easily should you want the G# key to open while the RH fingers are down.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-04-11 12:17)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-04-11 12:56
David, as Chris wrote on the Buffet bass, which is what I play, the C#/G# is already like an articulated key except there is no arm from the lower stack top key to the C#/G# key. So all the compromises you mentioned should already exist and won't be affected by adding an arm, although they actually don't happen. For years that I have this instrument I remember the C#/G# sticking maybe a few times, and always imediately after I start playing, never while I'm playing. The other problem you mentioned of the adjustment, as long as the articulated key doesn't close before the lower stack keys then at worst I have a normal non articulated key which is no big deal.
"chacun à son goût"
I don't speak Spieglish ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Chris, can you post a picture of the arm you attached? What I was thinking is possibly a tube on the top lower stack key with a rod connected by a grub screw to fit over the C#/G# key. The problem is making them round would be hard to adjust fast. Square could be much better, but still I think it might be impossible to reconnect completely accurate. I probably want an adjusting screw over the C#/G# key anyway so I guess the question is how fast and easy do I compromise. If it's not going to be easy enough to change I'll probably never use it.
Thanks!
Nitai
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-11 13:23
Unfortunately I haven't got a camera, though if I can get someone to take a few photos I'll email them to you.
What could be easy enough to make is a sliding arm connected by two screws to the edge of the RH long Bb connection arm - the free end connects with the C#/G# cup (with an adjusting screw) and if you want to disengage it, undo the locking screws and slide it down. I think there's enouh room to do this. The connecting arm will look similar to the F#-G# link on oboes/cors in that it'll have a double bend in it (almost 'S' shaped) and an adjusting screw at the C#/G# end.
See the middle joint of the cor this picture for an idea:
http://howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=./wo/HowarthXLCorBWTP.jpg&pid=35248
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-04-11 15:25
On Oehler systems there is a connection between the LH pinky E/B key and the double key for F/C. If you play clarion D and push only the E/B you get C#. On Wurlitzer clarinets the connection 'arm' is on a hinge so you can twist it to disconnect if you want, but in only 1 second you twist it and it is connected again. Maybe something like this can work for you.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-04-11 16:57
I thought of the Oehler system B-C# hinged clutch thingy (similar to the Split E clutch on some flutes that can be disengaged), though that will need to be made well for it to work effctively - the hinge part will need a smooth channel on the inside and be able to clamp the swivelling arm tight, and the swivelling linkage arm should be able to fold back in such a way that it doesn't get bent when in the case.
The linkage arm (F#-G# link) is pivoted on a screw which also clamps it tight. Though you may need to fit a stopper on the linkage arm ( which will be a small lump on the piece itself) so it will be in the correct position each time you engage it.
Think of the blades on a Swiss Army knife in how they operate - the knife handle is the existing link from the RH main action (long Bb) and the blade is the F#-G# connection.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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