 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-03-21 00:36
...are hard to find. What are your favorite reeds? I'm looking for a rich thick tone much like that of David Shifrin. I am having trouble with my reeds. I switch between Vandoren traditionals in the 3.5-4 range, V-12s in 4s and 56 lepics in 3.5-4s. To me they sound thin overall. Some sound beautiful at first, but after some time loose their rich tone and become thin sounding.
If this helps, I play on a...
Buffet R-13 in the 520000 serial number range
with a Clark Fobes CF+ mouthpiece and a vandoren leather ligature with a metal insert
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-03-21 00:55
hmmm I think many other players than David Shifrin have rich and thick tone. But that's not the only quality that our sound could have.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-03-21 00:56
"What's your break-in procedure?"
I haven't had much of a "set" procedure until; recently, when i started doing a ton of research on various aspects of clarinet. I usually take a new box of reeds, put them in a small glass of tap water, wait a few then start play testing each one for a few minutes. I number them, then write what i like/dislike about each. some i just totaly throw out. After that i'll take the best ones and refine them with some 400 grit sandpaper and an occasional trim.
I've read about week long processes, but have yet to try them.
What do you do?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-03-21 01:01
Forgott to mention but It will not be of much help but the reeds I'm using and love are Glotin GIII but Glotin doesn't make reeds any more and sold their reed machines to Rico some years ago. It just happend that I came across some old stock in Copenhagen and also from Bill Lewington in UK but the stock I got in Copenhagen have different cut much more like Vandoren Traditional and the others are more similar to the cut of the Rico Reserve. So now I got like 14 boxes and it should last me for over 2 years.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-03-21 01:20
I play a new reed for a few minutes a day for the first 10 days or so, adding a bit more time toward the end. After that, they're ready to be used for full-on practice/rehearsal/performance sessions. Any sooner, they'll blow out pretty quick.
I also almost never toss a reed until the end of the 10 days. Only the worst "this thing doesn't even play!" offenders go away then.
I also follow a sort of "Lite" version of the Larry Guy book (highly recommended book, btw). I rub the reeds down after playing them during that time, and let them sit flat-side-up on a table until the next day.
I find that how a reed plays the first day is often a very poor indication of how it will play later. Also, playing it too long at the start tends to blow them out quickly, leading to the sounding-nice-at-first-then-being-lousy you described.
So I'd recommend looking at your break-in procedure before shopping around too much for reeds.
That, and I age my reeds. I buy a bunch of boxes, open them, close them, and let them sit for a few months to a few years before playing the reeds inside. It's worked well for me... a V12 4 plays very nicely if it's been sitting for about two years in my (limited) experience... I'll play newer 3.5s than that.
As an aside, this makes the new flow packs a completely pointless nuisance as far as my reed procedure goes.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-03-21 01:29
I'll try some of your info.
Which Larry guy book is it? I know he has at least two on reeds.
-thanks
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CK
Date: 2008-03-21 03:54
Try The Gonzalez FOF a great reed! A 3.5 Gonzalez is close to a V12 4
in strength .
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RodRubber
Date: 2008-03-21 04:16
<<new flow packs a completely pointless nuisance as far as my reed procedure goes.>>
I agree that the flow packs are a waste of money, time, space, material etc. Everything about the new packaging is wrong. I do not feel that this new packaging has improved vandoren's product. I do think that the reeds i've been getting since apr June 2007 have been a lot better, cane quality also better, and less work needed to make it play well. I have had the best results with the current flow pack reeds by also opening them and letting them settle or something before playing on them.
I am currently doing very little or nothing to Vandoren v12 5s, or 4.5s to make them play well.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-03-21 10:18
I always brake in reeds in 5 days or so 3 min first then 5 and 10 and adding 5 minutes each day. After that and not until after that I start to make adjustments if they are needed. if I adjust a reed I try to scrape it not too much and repeat it the next day and give it then a rest. So the brake in time + adjustments and so take about 7-8 days that is if I need to make any adjustments at all.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2008-03-21 12:59
RodRubber says
"I agree that the flow packs are a waste of money, time, space, material etc. Everything about the new packaging is wrong."
I couldn't believe it when I saw these. They keep moving in the wrong direction. I still miss the old very small purple boxes.
Post Edited (2008-03-21 13:00)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-03-21 14:08
There's exactly one purpose where the flow packs are great - when I sell a refurbished clarinet, the buyer gets two or three reeds of his/her choice. Flow-packed reeds are individually sold here and look much more hygienic than other "singles" where you don't really know where they spent their former lives.
Other than than - pfft.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-03-21 14:29
I also take all my reeds out of the flowpaks and test each one for a few minutes and write down what I like or dislike about them for atleast a week.
But I also, lightly sand/polish each reed between testing. my teacher told me that when we play the reed it opens the reed tubes, and lightly sanding will close them back up. I guess otherwise they will blowout much faster.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2008-03-21 14:57
I also am disturbed by the very wasteful new packaging of Vandoren flowpacks. I thought that the old plastic covers were bad enough, but now they have to cover the whole thing in plastic again! Besides that, I have noticed absolutely no improvement in the reeds with the new packaging. Should we petition Vandoren to go back to the old way of packaging? Or come up with a better, more environmentally friendly system?
Post Edited (2008-03-21 14:58)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-03-21 15:44
Anybody remembers the old orange box packaging those were the days...
-S
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-03-21 16:39
Although obviously the reed you use is very important in achieving the tone quality you’re looking for I believe it is a bit naive to think that will achieve your goal of getting a certain type of sound, although it is important of course. The mouthpiece you’re using is far more important as is you’re physical attributes. The way you form your embouchure, open your throat, placement of your tongue, voicing and of course, your inner ear. You have to find the total equipment and experiment with how you produce your tone to try to change or copy a tone quality. And then you have to work hard at it so you don’t simply fall back to your “old” sound. The reed is important, but only one aspect. I suggest trying a variety of other mouthpieces to see if another type gives you more of what you’re looking for, and then try a variety of reed brands and styles, not to mention ligatures. (I don’t think the mouthpiece cap makes much difference so you can stay with what you have there.)
Good luck, ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2008-03-21 17:26
In regard to the Flow Packs -
Vandoren has always had the mind set to never be left behind when a competitor's product starts to sell.
First example was the V12 reed which was an obvious direct response to the tremendous success of the short lived Morre reed.
Next came the 56 Rue Lepic reed which was their answer to the Gonzalez FOF reed.
Most recently, with Rico including a "reed humidity control indicator" in their higher priced reeds, Vandoren's response was to try and out think the humidity issue by just shrink wrapping each reed.
I guess when you are number one, you get a bit paranoid when other companies innovate something before you...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: dfh
Date: 2008-03-21 18:36
Have any of you tried soaking the reeds for 12 or so hours, letting them dry, repeating process and then play them? I have had amazing success with this so far, on my homemade reeds and vandorens. It would take me too long to type of the scientific reason for why I think this works, but there is actual science behind it. (I didn't believe it either at first.) When I have more time I'll type it all up - but I'm really excited about it. It really cuts down that break in time.
Re the Vandoren packaging. I had the same reaction you all did, but then I spoke with a Vandoren rep, and he said that the mylar packaging incinerates into 'nothing' so it never gets to the landfill, and that Vandoren is looking for a biodegradable packaging. Also there was something about them changing the ink on the backs of the reeds...I'll ask him about that again. Also, the little plastic thingies are now recyclable #2 plastic.
D
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BandieSF
Date: 2008-03-21 18:43
On the flow packaging, the improvements are best noticed in places where the climate isn't what you would call "ideal" (like Texas) and boxes would be sitting on shelves with the reeds deteriorating inside, if that made any sense. If a box without the flow packaging sat in a store for a week or something, the reeds would be subject to temperature and humidity changes, probably causing the reed to warp. The flow packaging is more to prevent a case like that than anything else. At least that's what I read on the Vandoren website.
Personally, I avoided all the mess and went synthetic (Legere Quebecs) and just dealt with the whole adapting thing. Since I still found them to be just a bit too thin for my tastes, I tried a different barrel with a reverse taper, as opposed to the stock barrel I've been using, and found that it made all the difference.
-----
Current set-up:
Classical:
Strength 4 1/4 Legere Signature Series
Vandoren M13 Lyre
Jazz:
Strength 3 3/4 Legere Quebec
Pomarico Jazz*
Clarinets:
Buffet E11 Student Model
Buffet R13 Greenline
<http://operationhighschool.blogspot.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-03-21 19:43
> Also, the little plastic thingies are now recyclable #2 plastic.
...and how many of us do actually pitch them into the recycling bin?
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Copland
Date: 2008-03-21 19:58
Does anybody have any recent experiences with Olivieri reeds?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CWH
Date: 2008-03-21 20:54
For more years than I care to remember, I have exclusively played synthetic reeds (Fibracell). To that end, in the past I have been very happy with the quality of this product. At the time way back when, the selling point to me was the idea of quality control and consistency and the notion that reeds could be manufactured synthetically with predictable results. However, over the course of the last year or so; and perhaps as many dozen + reeds later (this year alone) something is now different. I have noticed a change in tone, color and projection of these latest reeds. Further, I used to be able to get 2-3 weeks from a reed when rotated with 4 others; now I’m lucky to get a week. To which I have to ask what has changed, is it me (though all of my equiptment is the same) or has something else changed (perhaps they way in which the reeds are manufactured). All this having been said; I went and purchased 2 boxes of Grand Concert Select Thick Blank from our dear friends at ProW. I am hoping in my heart that I’ll find a few decent reeds. What do I have to lose? It’s almost a no-brainer, when you can by a box of 10 for a little more than price of 2 of the others. It is note worthy that, I still believe that Fibracell produces an outstanding product.
Study, Practice, Play and Enjoy.
Post Edited (2008-03-23 22:56)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-03-21 21:56
I play these unusual Spanish ones that (is it significant? :-D ) come in little purple boxes. They come out of the box like 2"x4" but just get better the more I play them. What tone do they give? I play them because they do what I say, not what they want.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-03-21 23:26
You can just rubb the reed on a flat surface after playing that does the same as sanding and does not take off any materal or even just with a piece of newspaper which I think also dosen't take off any materal.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-03-22 00:50
(Disclaimer - I sell Gonsalez and Xilema reeds but which has nothing to do with this post)
After cutting and then wetting and drying the natural tendency is for the reed to return to the semi-circular shape from which it was cut from the tube cane. This causes the back of the reed to deform and not remain flat and therefore make perfect contact with the table of the mouthpiece. IMO some material should be removed to maintain the optimum contact of the reed with the table to maintain optimum vibration of the reed fulcrum at the table contact. I use a bastard file or sandpaper.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
Post Edited (2008-03-22 00:52)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: dfh
Date: 2008-03-22 01:34
To Ben:
All YOU have to do is put them in the recycling. If you get them into the trash - why is it so hard to put them in the recycling bin? Now, if you don't have recylcing, ok...but Each of us doing our little thing can make a big difference. Just like each of us NOT doing our little part makes a big stinkin' mess.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2008-03-22 06:47
Hi!
An effective procedure that takes little time for me is as follows:
1. Wet all reeds in a box of 10 and let them dry for a day with no playing.
2. Lightly sand the raised grain on both sides on the second day. rewet them, and let them dry for a day, with no playing.
3. Repeat step 2 twice more, for a total of about 4 days.
4. Try them for the first time, soften them as needed by sanding the tip lightly at a angle on both sides, kind of like an oboe reed tip. Sand with the grain toward the tip to minimize damage to the tip. When they play ok, wet them again and let them dry for a day. Clipping is almost never needed.
5. Repeat step 4 again, perhaps twice. From V12 #3 reeds on an original ML M3 mouthpiece(from his home) this generally gives 10 fine reeds that ring well on the low notes and can easily play double high C.
Silicon carbide # 400 paper works pretty good as the material is very hard.
Good Luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mallardbay603
Date: 2008-03-23 15:27
I hd an idea its nasal wash or contat eye lens -- NaCl soak- 1 reed in mouth -set up - soak 1 or 2 on glass while playing 5 min then swith to next etc till finish and start over with last batch i like. keep repeating till I have 5 or 6 to play and only play for 5 min on timer to swith over etc etc. Clarinet for me is just a hobby for the old grey matter and its quite a challenge.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alexis
Date: 2008-03-23 15:28
Why don't you stick with one type of reeds and make the best sound you can on them?
I know I am not alone in having wasted countless hours and dollars buying and playing different reed brands. If you have the same problems with all the reeds, look at the common element!
(its you...)
So work on you, not on your reeds
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: job_man
Date: 2008-03-23 20:30
I agree with Alexis and Ed Palanker: it always makes me cringe when a pupil goes on about how they've improved their playing with a new ligature or other bit of apparatus. If you want a good sound, you have first to practise a lot, and then a lot more, and only then can you really decide what mouthpiece you might like. Having acquired something like what you think you like, you then have to practice lots more, using the best reeds you can find, and then you may even change your mouthpiece requirement again. Meanwhile, you will probably have developed your reed choice to suit the different mouthpieces, but all the time you will have been playing, playing, playing. How long is this? I would say that no clarinettist can know whether they are making their REAL sound unless they have been playing, on average more than three hours a day. Why do players always come back from orchestral/band courses with better sounds? Because they've been playing for hours and hours. Why do professional clarinettists sound better than most amateurs? Because they've been playing daily for much, much longer. I have always been very suspicious of pupils who make a nice sound on five minutes practice three days a week, and always, always, there is some point at which they just can't cut the mustard.
By the way, a quote I always remember from the chief designer at Boosey and Hawkes, when I said that I wanted to sound like Mr X, was: "why don't you just try to sound like YOU?" On reflection, I realised that it is, indeed, impossible to sound just like Mr X because, they have different teeth, different oral cavity, different saliva content, different lip thickness and strength, different chest size etc. etc.
So give up trying, go away and practise, and only start asking questions again when someone else says 'don't you sound awful!'.
And the best of luck.....
Best wishes
Job_man
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jkelly32562
Date: 2008-03-24 01:41
I have read several places, and even had my clarinet professor tell me of people soaking their reeds overnight in Vodka for 4 nights, taking them out to dry during the day, and using sand paper to smoth them down before re-soaking them each night.
I am trying this tonight on several Vandoren Rue 56s.....
Anyone else heard of this, or tried this? I wonder what the method to this madness could be?
Jonathan Kelly
jkelly32562@troy.edu
Post Edited (2008-03-24 01:51)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-03-24 06:37
"I have read several places, and even had my clarinet professor tell me of people soaking their reeds overnight in Vodka for 4 nights, taking them out to dry during the day, and using sand paper to smoth them down before re-soaking them each night."
that's the best excuse so far to touch alcohol. lol let me know if you get buzzed when playing your instrument. if so, i think i'ma get me some too.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2008-03-24 14:47
My best idea about using Vodka and reeds would be to drink the Vodka, soak my reeds in water, work on my reeds and practice!
Choose which order works best for you and in the amounts that work for your own best success ![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-03-24 20:26
> All YOU have to do is put them in the recycling. If you get them into the
> trash - why is it so hard to put them in the recycling bin? Now, if you don't
> have recylcing, ok...but Each of us doing our little thing can make a big
> difference. Just like each of us NOT doing our little part makes a big stinkin'
> mess.
Sure. But having a 30 minute drive to the next recycling center somehow defeats the purpose, doesn't it?
I'd rather the manufacturers wouldn't produce unnecessary wrappers to begin with. What hasn't been made doesn't need recycling...
--
Ben
Post Edited (2008-03-24 20:26)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
