 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: AS
Date: 2008-03-07 19:51
We cannot prevent the problem of water in wind instruments, that is clear. I am just wondering about methods used when you must rectify the situation immediately. Swabbing, of course is the word here. But you cannot just take 15-20 seconds break in the middle of a musical phrase, take off mouthpiece, grab swab, pull it through, mount the mouthiece back, correct the reed position...... Any fast tricks available here?
Another issue - for me not only the register hole creates problems with water. Also saliva on the back of the reed after playing for a while builds up sufficiently to begin distorting the sound. I wonder if this is this just my problem or this is just as inevitable as water in the register hole? Solutions?
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2008-03-07 20:06
I think prevention is key. No, you can't swab in the middle of the phrase, but you can between movements and during long rests. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, etc.
If water is a frequent problem for you, maybe keeping pad-cleaning papers on the stand for a concert is a good habit to get into. Hair curler paper or lens tissue works, as does yamaha pad-cleaning paper. (Some folks use cigarette paper, but I'm very anti-cigarette anything...) Hair curler paper is probably least expensive. Just blot a tonehole when there's a gurgle, and swab as soon as you get the chance.
Then, of course there's blowing into the tonehole with the key open to hopefully remove the water. And, there's taking the affected joint, close all holes including blocking the bottom of the joint with your hand. Then Blow hard through the other end and open the offending key. That way the water goes out of the instrument and not to another tonehole. (Read this in the new Clarinet Mag. in an article by Ed Palanker, but I've seen it done before, too...)
But if you have time to do that, you probably have time to swab.
Lori
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-03-07 23:12
Or put some vaseline on each side of the tone hole were you usually have water problems. And remeber to bring swab and sigarettepaper onto the stage.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-03-07 23:17
Swab about 5-10 minutes into playing. That, in my experience, tends to buy about an hour without water problems. A single bit of early swabbing can do more than a half dozen swabbings later on.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-03-08 00:25
One of the many reasons I favor leather pads on all sizes of clarinet is that they are slightly porous and will absorb a bit of moisture -- enough to usually prevent water from accumulating in a tonehole (particularly the troublesome C#/G# hole on standard instruments without the articulated configuration). Thus the likelihood of gurgles/burbles is reduced and the player can wait for an opportune moment to swab.
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2008-03-08 08:57
I've found Alex's statement to be true...... after all it's when the instrument is cold with warm air being blown over the internal surface, that the most condensation will occur. As Alex says.... swabbing just after the instrument has reached playing temperature, is a cunning stunt. Condensation builds up less quickly thereafter and gives a bit of time before the next ablution is necessary.
This is seen particularly in bass clar, with the metallic neck kink gathering condensation early into playing. Appropriate disposal of the wash down the 3rd flute's neck after 10 -15 mins may have a desirable effect particularly if she's slightly out of tune. That would raise her pitch!
Joking aside...... we clarinetists (known for our innovation) have not as yet patented any device to reduce/eradicate this problem
I'm thinking low voltage internal heater and small lumen colostomy bag attached just above the C#/G# tonehole. Or maybe a personal chiller to cool the airstream before it causes mayhem.
Any other hi tech ideas to combat the problem????
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-03-08 10:05
I have enormous problems with my basset horn. My technician painted a line of paraffin inside the bore to divert the water, but it helps only up to a point. I find the best answer to the problem is to play for 10 minutes and then swab. If necessary, I also give the register key a short blast of compressed air. BG make a container specially for clarinets, but I'm not sure it is any different to the product you can buy for half the price in a photo shop. It also helps to store the instrument with cigarette papers under the worse offending holes so you are sure they are dry next time. Don't forget to strip the gum off the papers.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-08 10:28
Some great ideas Bob49....do you suppose bagpipes were really developed to overcome a water problem? Here's one idea that might not fly in every group: remove the barrel-mp assembly and shake the clarinet so the liquid flies out the upper end. Then tap the barrel-mp assembly on your pants leg. It's a "guy thing".
Sucking periodically rather than blowing can remove some reed condensate.
If you remove the mp-barrel assembly you can quickly do a "handkerchief" type swab operation rather quickly with practice. That obviates reed removal delay.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-03-08 16:18
As I've complained (whined) before, tone hole water avoidance should be the next frontier of technical improvements in clarinetting. The trill key, G#/C#, etc problem is universal.
I think I'm getting benefit from the warm-up and swab protocol mentioned earlier in this thread. Swab paranoicly --mumble something to the audience between movements as you flamboyantly fling your bright silk swab through the bore.
I've tried and tried to find the magic repellent that will keep water out of the G#/C# tone hole (By the way, one piece Rossis with the G#/C# on top of the bore, as well as my articulated G#/C# full Boehm, are not immune to the problem). I found that an English hard wood finishing wax helps, but rubs off with swabbing in just a few days --and the G#/C# tone hole is the only one on the horn that is "easy" to reach with a wax applicator.
Is it true that the Buffet Tosca has an insert in the C#/G# tone hole (like the thumb hole) in an effort to get the condensation to run around the tone hole?
OH, and it has been my experience that the principal flutist most deserves to become the depository for excess water. S/he's earned that right.
OH, and the Imani winds clarinetist both at our "jam" session and during their concert here this week showed high level expertise in blowing out her tone holes --and she does even that with perfect embouchure.
Bob Phillips
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-08 16:24
My water target was a clarinetist in the row in front of me. I do believe that helped him become a noted Washington correspondent.
Bob Draznik
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Author: AS
Date: 2008-03-08 21:01
bob49t wrote:
I'm thinking low voltage internal heater and small lumen colostomy bag attached just above the C#/G# tonehole. Or maybe a personal chiller to cool the airstream before it causes mayhem.
Any other hi tech ideas to combat the problem????
What about cooling the player down to the room temperature?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-08 21:13
Wow, a colostomy bag for clarinets! Would it collect good music also?
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-08 21:26
Take the top joint off, blow as much as you can from the blocked toneholes, shake the joint violently (but constructively) a couple of times, pass the pullthrough up the joint to collect the water droplets, bung it back on and hey presto! All done and dusted within 16 bars rest.
Or annoy the brass players by blowing into the speaker vent and side key toneholes during one of their solos.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-03-09 00:44
I have found a way that seems to help, at least for me. I always looked in the bore to find the offending stream coming from the thumb tube. And (with the perspective of looking down the bore) it always traveled counterclockwise to the right, going to the C#G# and EbAb holes. I observed also that the thumb tube is threaded on my older Buffet clarinets (don't know about other Big 4 brands or new Buffets) and that a cluster of water forms on the lower right quadrant of the tube. Water is very clingy to surfaces and will stick to the threaded area more because there is more texture there. It never clings to the left side where there is only 2 thread lines.
I ordered some Buffet Thumb Bushes item WBU1025 from <www.windcraft.co.uk> and hoped to remove the threads and replace my thumb tubes. Luckily, they had no threads to begin with!  I just changed them and now the stream goes to the bottom more often than not. I still DO get the occasional water in the holes, but not nearly as much as before.
Since the new thumb tubes from windcraft are not threaded, I assume that the new Buffet's are also not threaded- does anyone know for sure???
Post Edited (2008-03-09 12:10)
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2008-03-09 01:09
I don`t seem to have a problem now. Keep swallowing any saliva in your mouth and suck back (inhale) thru` the clarinet at pause times. This seems to keep the reed dry and it was a build up of droplets on my reed that caused a lot of "burbling" for me.
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2008-03-09 01:27
A note about the drying papers...
I've tried both the woodwind drying papers that Zonda includes in their reed packs, and the papers used by beauticians when doing perms. The perm papers absorb some moisture, but are slow to absorb and really slow to dry afterwards. They're sure cheap, though!
The woodwind drying papers are like wicks and suck up the moisture very well, and in a couple of minutes are dry again. I fold mine in two to give them more strength to fit under the pad. They can be reused lots of times and mine end up wearing out before they're tossed so I have packs of them left. I've not used cigarette papers but they look similar, but am told they have a line of glue on them. Perhaps they're just as good?
I too have found that once the instrument is warmed up there's not so much of a problem. The tech changed my A key pad to a cork one, and that's never been a problem since. Mine consistently bubbles in the side Eb/Bb key now.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-03-09 14:35
"Since the new thumb tubes from windcraft are not threaded, I assume that the new Buffet's are also not threaded- does anyone know for sure???"
Buffet thumb tubes have light knurling on them in one direction only, so installing them so the cutout lines up with the bore can be a pain as they turn as they're pushed in. So getting them in the correct position before pushing home is a skill in itself.
Leblanc thumb bushes are threaded, and are sealed with a rubber O-ring.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-09 15:57
"counterclockwise to the right" Only above the Equator.
Well, sure, regular cigarette papers work just as well.....cut the gummy off.
I'm wondering how Japanese rice paper might work...
Now I know why some clarinet players lean to the left....
Bob Draznik
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Author: Tara
Date: 2008-03-09 19:32
Similar science to the vaseline and almond oil suggestions above, I have found that after running bore oil through my clarinet the paths of water change. Might be worth a shot.
Good luck,
Tara
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-03-10 03:42
ChrisP-"Buffet thumb tubes have light knurling on them in one direction only, so installing them so the cutout lines up with the bore can be a pain as they turn as they're pushed in."
As the smooth design solves the water problem in the side EbBb and C#G#, and the knurled design is also difficult to install, WHY do they still use it? It has no benefits over a smooth design that I can find.
Post Edited (2008-03-10 14:26)
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Author: Noqu
Date: 2008-03-10 15:04
Another simple measure against moisture on the back of the reed is to carefully insert a piece of ordinary paper (typically the lower right corner of the sheet music you are just playing :-) into the gap between reed and mouthpiece. Must be done carefully in order not to scratch anything, but has helped me a lot. And it's quick, too (couple of bars rest should be enough).
Noqu
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-08-17 08:43
I searched for "gurgling A key" (because that's what I often get after about 45 minutes of playing) and found this thread, last modified in 2008.
Sometimes I get gurgling, other times my throat A is suddenly just really flat and I immediately know what the problem is. Since this is happening mostly toward the end of my practice sessions...
- sometimes I try to suffer through it until I'm done. I think it's partially gone away on its own a couple of times.
- sometimes I try to blow sideways across the G# tone hole, with mixed success.
Eventually I expect I'll need to deal with this issue in front of an audience. I'm not a very formal guy, even in what should be formal settings (!), so I will not be mortified- I imagine I'll just stop, do whatever to fix it, and play on. But I'll probably need to be talking while fiddling. And talking ABOUT spit in your clarinet is not that interesting, so I'll have to either operate or talk on autopilot, could be fun.
1) Blowing sideways on the tone hole is loud (especially with barrel mic active- maybe whoever is running sound would momentarily kill it) and might require a few tries to get the job done. Not super professional, and not reliable either.
2) I could instead have a can of air (mentioned above). These all contain bitterant these days, as I learned the hard way when I blasted a Legere reed with one (trying to freeze it to recover from too much boiling water- and no that didn't work either). So I'm concerned that squirting canned air anywhere around a clarinet could leave a bitter deposit that might work its way via fingers or however back up to mouth, and I promise you'll be sorry.
3) I could have at it with cigarette paper, or whatever else might soak up the moisture.
4) I could pull off the barrel and swab away, then reassemble and re-tune.
5) I could swap clarinets, or just quickly move my barrel / mouthpiece / reed assembly to another clarinet. Actually this is more appealing than choices 1-4.
Have I missed any alternatives or important considerations?
Any updates on the old contents of this thread?
Thanks as always!
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-08-17 10:08
Within the context of an ensemble, you pick a place in the music where you won't be missed (and BEFORE the water issue is a problem) and use a small square of the blue "Bounty" style shop towel and blot. Preventive blotting and/or clearing with a short, intense burst of air are the fixes for this. It also helps to swab more frequently when the build up of condensation is more likely (cool rooms on humid days).
...............Paul Aviles
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