 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: emalexandra
Date: 2008-03-03 15:16
I'm a professional Clarinettist and I thought I might see if anyone had any advice on intonation re Buffet R13 Prestige Clarinets.
I've played Buffets for years with a Vandoren B45 mouthpiece. John Coppin bored it out to help my tuning, however I don't think it is even all the over the range.
I like a smooth mellow tone and have always played strength 4 reeds to achieve that. I don't like to be too strident in the upper register. I’ve tried playing on softer reeds but I feel I'm compromising my tone. Though I'm playing 3 and half reeds now to be more flexible and lip down any sharpness.
I am considering trying another make of Clarinet.. Eg Selmer..
Does anyone know the best make and model of Clarinet for the best intonation? Also if I stay with my Buffets can anyone recommend mouthpieces.. Thought about trying Peter Eaton ones.
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2008-03-03 16:10
I haven't played a lot of different makes of clarinet, but I will say that the Lyrique clarinet I play (designed by Tom Ridenour) plays very well in-tune...far better than the Buffet I used to have. The Lyrique is hard rubber, though, which may not be for everyone. Ridenour also designed the Leblanc Opus (the first one, not the current one designed by Backun). From what I hear, the Ridenour designed Opus is also very well in-tune, but I've never played it to know for myself.
My knowledge different models of instrument isn't vast, but that's what I know based on what I play! I hope even my tiny offering of information helps!
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-03-03 17:23
First of all you must realise that the clarinet is an instrument that is not in tune. It is in tune with its self in good makers aim to get the instruments they make even and in tune with themselves. Intonation on the clarinet is alot to do with the player as well as the instrument. I play Peter Eaton Elites and I must say that his instruments have very good intonation across the board, but as with all clarinets there are the usual spots like flat low E, F and E first stave as examples.
Why did John bore out your mouthpiece to help with tuning, what and where was the problem because with french clarinets and mouthpieces there really shouldn't be that much of a problem.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-03-03 18:32
I second the Yamaha CSG......wonderful horn.
This is a personal thing based on how you play but I'd try them if you have an open mind. Also, the Selmer Signature is worthy of a test drive.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2008-03-03 20:09
I play on a Guy Chadash Bb and A. These are the best in-tune clarinets I have found, but as mentioned above, nothing is perfect. Their overall scale is very smooth. The price reflects the individual care Mr. Chadash puts into his clarinets.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-03-03 20:40
John Gibson are Chadash that much more expensive than Buffet Prestige clarinets? At least they are cheaper than the Tosca which in my opinion is ridiculously expensive. I for sure will not suport this price marketing that Buffet has and the next time I will look for a new horn I will first look at everything else. When you can get Rossi,Eaton,Chadash or Orsi and Weir which are all hand made(not 100% sure about the Orsi and Weir clarinet) in a small company with individual attention for less than a Buffet Tosca from a mass production company then something is not right.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-03-03 21:30
I am a huge fan of the Yamaha YSG clarinet...there are a number of reasons. The main reason is the tuning and sound are superb and allow a player to concentrate more on playing the music. As to feel and blend they play superbly along any model and make of clarinet..so this will not leave you out in the cold so to speak. As to feel the mechanism is superb and is very clean in action..so there you have it...
...tuning throughout the compass is excellent..the sound is dark but vibrant with a nice ring on top. As to whether it is for you that is another matter. My Bb and A are matched nicely as well..the A is alot better than any on the market now...unless you want to buy a Wurlitzer or Rossi and have a million bucks.
David Dow
Post Edited (2008-03-03 21:31)
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2008-03-03 21:33
David,
Did you mean to say "CSG"? I have not heard of a "YSG"...
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-03-03 22:15
David as I said then Rossi is not much more expensive than Buffet Prestige clarinet but a lot more expensive than Yamaha so if you need a million bucks to buy Rossi then you need a million bucks to buy Buffet Prestige and Tosca clarinets.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-03-04 02:24
There is not such thing as a “best in tune” clarinet. I know players that have Chadash clarinets that have had a great deal of work on them to get them “in tune’ but the same can be said about so many different clarinets as well. It’s the player that plays in tune, not the clarinet. With that said, some are better than others and that’s especially true within every manufacture and model. Example, One R13 can be better or worse in tune than another. I’ve heard players on a variety of different instruments play very well in tune and others not so good. Also, some mouthpieces play sharp, some probably play flat. Any good clarinet will play better or worse with the right barrel. Also, everyone voices slightly differently so one person may play the throat tones flat, another sharp. The same goes for the 12th. You need to try different clarinets and find the one that fits you not some other player saying theirs is the best. It’s best for them not for you. Someone told me the Tosca was out of tune yet I know someone that plays it very well in tune. The same with the Selmer Signature, which I bought a few years ago. I did have to do some tuning work on it but I think I play it pretty well in tune. Every clarinet needs some tuning to the players preferences and “faults”. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-03-04 03:55
Ed, what you say is true, but there are clarinets that tend to be significantly more in tune that others. Clarinet for clarinet, R13s lose out to CSGs. For the record, I play R13s, but I can't discount the reality that they are simply made with a better internal scale.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-03-04 04:16
Hi,
To add fuel to the fire, my best clarinets for intonation are:
1. A 30 year old Leblanc L200
2. My Selmer Series 9* with the two pinned cracks in the upper joint.
3. A Ridenour 147 that I got out of a dirty warehouse recently and paid very little for.
What clarinet do I play on all gigs, my Yamaha CS Custom. I love it as it has the best balance of intonation, the warmest tone, and the the best ergonomic feel.
HRL
PS I think my R13 is sulking in a closet somewhere upstairs. I have not seen it for a long time.
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2008-03-04 05:09
In tune assumes an absolute pitch standard across the board. This is never the case in a live performance situation, either with an orchestra, in chamber music or with a piano. Secondly, assuming that every note on an instrument tunes at the number "0" on the needle, play any note as the third in a major chord and find out just where the tuning has to be. Or perhaps the fifth, or a tritone written as both an augmented 4th or diminished 5th (the two ARE different).
Many of us have played concerts where the piano is slightly out (which, by the way might mean it SOUNDS in) or perhaps another player is having a bad day or a difficult time with reeds. These things happen from day to day and flexibility is required.
In essence, I very much agree with Ed, that it is the player that plays in tune. However, I believe that an instrument must be flexible enough to allow the player to play in tune within any given situation. Bottom line is, when you're playing in any group, it doesn't matter where the needle is, it matters what your ears hear.
So... personally, I look for an instrument that I can play in tune and that suits me. It so happens that mine are Buffet, but if they play in tune for ME, that's all that matters.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2008-03-04 06:12
Michael wrote: "or a tritone written as both an augmented 4th or diminished 5th (the two ARE different"
Could you explain that to me please? I've never really understood how to tune diminshed 5th/augmented 4ths.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-03-04 06:59
I interpreted the question to be about how well in tune a clarinet is with itself. While we all voice notes a little differently, I think this is a pretty clear question that does not relate to playing in tune with others.
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Author: klarinetkid
Date: 2008-03-04 12:15
I'll second what others have said here; the player, aftermarket modifications (i.e. barrels, mouthpieces, custom tuning) vastly affect the final intonation of a clarinet. That said, after 12 years in an orchestra playing Buffet clarinets, I find the Yamaha CSG a breath of fresh air. Although not perfect, the scale and evenness make playing so much easier.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-03-04 12:17
Hank Lehrer wrote: "I think my R13 is sulking in a closet somewhere upstairs. I have not seen it for a long time."
Hank, a clarinet is a terrible thing to waste! You should give it its freedom. If you need help setting it free, please let me know! ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-03-04 12:23
I agree with Ed Palanker that there's no one make of clarinet with the "best" intonation. I'm one of those dweebs who owns too many clarinets but won't quite admit to collecting them. In typical junkie fashion: "I could stop any time. Really I could." And, like a junkie, I mix my drugs: try different mouthpieces and reeds on different instruments. It's no trouble at all to make any of these clarinets, including my best, play out of tune, simply by pairing the instrument up with the wrong mouthpiece.
For instance, I think a Hite Premiere is an excellent value for the money. It turns my plastic Bundy from the 1980s into a much better clarinet than I'd ever expect from a comparatively low-end beginner instrument. With the Hite mouthpiece, I'd be happy to march with that clarinet outdoors on pavement in iffy weather, where I wouldn't risk a grenadilla instrument. But put that Hite on a pro-quality Buffet from 1931--a clarinet that plays superbly with an unmarked old hard rubber mouthpiece of about the same age as the clarinet--and that Buffet goes so out of tune with itself that it's excruciating. Similarly, that old mouthpiece plays like a pig on a modern clarinet, including a modern Buffet R13. I've found that Selmer clarinets play well with Selmer mouthpieces, but those mouthpieces aren't always good on other brands of clarinet. Etc., etc....
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-03-04 14:14
Jeff,
Thanks for your kind advice but I have two grand-daughters that just started in the 5th grade on Ridenour 147s. So, I probably can find a good home for the R13 in the immediate family down the road.
But should something happen...
HRL
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-03-04 14:56
I meant CSG...I am always confused with the catologue designation I have Y-CSG.
Of course preferences abound here.. and clarinetists are a fairly dogmatic group. However, after trying numerous YCG clarinets I decided to outright get a set after being impressed not only in terms of sound but tuning and ease of playability. Most R13 owners tend to have drastic overhauling done on their instruments..barrells and bore work to bring them to 440.
I have not had to do that with the YCG Yamaha model..I also love the sound and blend they offer in orchestra. As to what each player owns and uses is a preference.. however players like Joquain Valdepenas and numerous fine Principals all over the USA are using them to great success.
Even David Shifrin uses them..and he is a pretty good clarinetist.
David Dow
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-03-04 15:18
The Buffet Tosca is among my least favorite newer model clarinets. Having tried a number of them I felt they really lacked warmth and flexibility. Another element about the Tosca is the keywork which is laid out very differently from any of the other Buffet models. Of course the models I tried were display models..but yet I could not help but feel the Tosca to be a dissapointment to me.
Without digressing too much the intonation on the newer Leblanc/Backun models is incredibly good and very steady..so I think the question really comes across as very subjective. Among most of the newer shelf fresh Buffet R13s I found very few as of late that knocked my socks..although a few were quite good a number of the group I tried were very inconsistent..and by 20 30 cents from note to note. However, I simply choose what works for ...I own quite a few sets of clarinets and that is simply because I work in music. I am not a collector!!!
As to Selmer they have a new model I have yet to try..has anyone out there checked it out yet? I assume this is a smaller or medium bore clarinet(under 14.6mm) ..lately I have wondered what Selmer is up to.
The Recital clarinets are pretty nice but weigh a ton. The main reason I stopped playing the Recital is was simply to tired from lugging the thing through long concerts and operas etc.
Again I am sticking to my guns..I really love the intonation of the CSG..is it perfect no..but from a timbral point of view I think it is a great clarinet as well.
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Author: CK
Date: 2008-03-05 04:31
I have found that I prefer the Selmer Signature personally for being
very well in tune.Also the Selmer Recital.
However, in the end it is up to the player. i just find that I prefer the Signatures tone quality and I do not have to make as many adjustments
as i did with the Buffets.
FYI also use a Backun/Morales barrel , Clark Fobes Cicero mp,
Gonzalez FOF reeds. This set up works well for me. I have students
in college that also play the Selmer recital, Buffets and Yamaha's,
The good students play in tune.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-03-05 13:28
I would have to agree that the Lyrique as designed by Mr. Ridenour is the best in tune instrument. I played a set of the original Opus also designed by Tom a number of years ago and they shared the same excellent tuning. I had purchased the Opus(Opera?) from the principal of a major symphony who sold them because he felt that they" didn't get past the brass section in forte passages". Since I used them only for chamber music, I cannot answer that and would have to rely on someone for the volume and carrying power.
As has been mentioned, no clarinet is perfectly in tune, but the Lyrique is a close as I have found, altissimo F# being a flat exception on the Lyrique and surprisingly the throat Bb on my Opus, was always floating around somewhere. That could have been because at the time I was using a VD M13 mouthpiece, beautifully responsive but a trifle sharp.
Sherman Friedland
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-03-05 17:48
Sherman,
I'm LOL at "they didn't get past the brass section in forte passages" which is really funny.
HRL
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