 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: AnnieMatilda
Date: 2008-02-29 16:23
Tomorrow I am going to purchase my first wooden clarinet. ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
I remember reading that a wooden clarinet needs breaking in slowly and have done a search on this forum but to no avail. I would be very grateful for some advice on how to go about this delicate task or if someone could kindly post a link.
I am so excited and also a little daunted at the prospect and desperately want to get it right.
Thanks in anticipation.
Annie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CWH
Date: 2008-02-29 16:29
Please check out this link:
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/Care/Break-in.html
Best of luck with you new horn.
Study, Practice, Play and Enjoy.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2008-02-29 21:23
Get into the habit of swabbing the bore--bell to barrel--from the start as well as drying the tendon sockets after each playing. Never put it away without cleaning no matter how short for time you may be. Your clarinet should be good to go from the first case opening--play at will and enjoy. No special incremental break-in period (ala older automobiles) is necessary.
Post Edited (2008-02-29 21:25)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-02-29 21:46
Well Annie you now have two completely different bits of advice.
Considering that the wood used in making clarinets is no longer aged anywhere near as long as it used to be, I would suggest following the general directions in the article provided by CWH.
A crack is not the end of the instrument as was once thought, but you'd rather not have one if you can avoid it!
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2008-03-01 02:59
i'll catch it for saying it,
but,
based on 40 years experience,
all you need to do is put a reed on the end and play it.
have at it...
swab when you put it away,
and enjoy...
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2008-03-01 03:00)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-03-01 14:22
I have no authoritative opinion on the subject, but (as an amateur) I do break in wooden clarinets slowly, whether they're new instruments or new-to-me used ones that may not have been played in a long time. Reasoning: Breaking the instrument in slowly may or may not do any good, but certainly does no harm. Therefore I might as well take the precaution.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-03-01 14:37
-- "Reasoning: Breaking the instrument in slowly may or may not do any good, but certainly does no harm." --
Wise words. Surely it's also to do with climate and how the clarinet has been stored prior to being bought.
If it's spent a year in a dry zone, then suddenly gets sent to a very warm, humid area, isn't this as bad as someone using it for an hour?
Isn't oiling the bore meant to slow down this process?
Steve
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: AnnieMatilda
Date: 2008-03-01 14:43
Thank you all for your advice. Given that opinion is definitely very mixed I think I will go with Lelia's plan and err on the side of caution. I still can't believe that I've got it! All I need now is the ability to play it properly and we will be laughing. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Thanks again for your time.
Annie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-03-01 15:19
Pull up the Peter Eaton clarinet site. He has complete, detailed info on this subject, applicable to all wood clarinets.
richard smith
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: susieray
Date: 2008-03-01 15:32
Considering that the first three wooden clarinets I ever owned ALL cracked, I am a tad bit cautious. Two of these were new and the third one was a restored older Buffet. So I break in everything slowly now just to be on the safe side. So far so good.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-03-01 15:38
Have a look at the Orsi and Weir web site. They have strong advice about breaking in a wooden instrument.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2008-03-01 16:06
As some have stated above, the counter argument to breaking it in slowly is to play it normally from day one, with no restrictions.
If it is going to crack, better to know sooner than later ...GBK (never had a clarinet crack in 40+ years)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: susieray
Date: 2008-03-01 18:01
I played mine "normally from day one", it cracked within the warranty
period, I had the joint replaced...but then same thing happened again
with the replacement joint. By then the warranty had expired.
Maybe I'm just lucky I guess.
The next clarinet I bought was a reconditioned Buffet. I
specifically asked the tech who sold it to me if I should break
it in slowly, since it had been unplayed for something like 40 years
before he rebuilt it. He laughed and said, "oh no, you shouldn't have
to worry about that; the wood is pretty well cured by now." So I
played it normally, and it cracked within a week. I had that crack
pinned, and within another week or two it cracked again about
an inch away from the first crack. It didn't really affect the way the horn
played but when I sold it I took a huge loss on it.
Since that time I have owned quite a few others which I have broken in gradually and have not had any more problems with cracking.
There are a lot of variables so it's pretty unpredictable from horn to horn, player to player, climate to climate...I once sold a clarinet that I had played quite a bit with no cracking which cracked right away for the new owner.
Sue
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-02 15:39
If, prior to playing, a wood clarinet is below, say 70 deg.F, it makes sense to allow it to warm up somewhat prior to playing....or even assembling it,since you are going to be blowing hot air into it. Non-wood horns can be such a joy but, alas, we all know wood horns sound better.....don't we.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-03-02 16:13
I've been trying to get some quantitative numbers for the stresses in wooden clarinets. It seems impossible because the data on thermal expansion coefficients, moduli of elasticity (wood has three --related to grain direction) and moisture migration.
This was motivated by a handful of cracked clarinets. One fellow claimed that it is the temperature gradient. Cold horn, with hot air trying to expand the bore. He warms his horns toward body temperature by holding the joints in his arm pits before playing.
The other fellow worries about moisture gradients. He keeps his studio closed up and heavily humidified --to around 60% RH.
They both have cracked clarinets.
Here's what I've learned:
There ain't no data
Ebony and such will split along the grain when subject to a tensile stress on the order of 2,000 lbf/square inch.
The failure stress can easily be reached in a model where the outer half of the clarinet is at 60-degF, and the inside is at body temperature. (Of course the two-layer model is not realistic because the temperature gradient will be continuous through the thickness (and around the tone holes).
The failure stress can easily be reached in a model where the outer half of the clarinet is at 35% RH and 70-degF, and the interior is saturated at body temperature.
The strongest suspicion I've attained from this fiddling is that it is easy for clarinets to crack.
A corollary:
To avoid cracks, a (good quality) wooden instrument must be treated carefully. Amongst other things that means giving it time to warm up from cold (and cool from warm). It also seems to require a stable/steady balance of humidity between the bore and the bulk wood of the instrument. I'm trying to do this my keeping a really high humidity level in my case --and keeping the case closed. (In this winter weather with the space heater running steadily, the house is in the 35-40% RH range, and I can't get my case much above 50%.
It seems reasonable that keeping the bore properly oiled would slow humidity changes in the wood --resisting moisture transfer into the clarinet from the bore and slowing evaporation from the body of the wood back into the bore.
From reading the Orsi & Weir advice on breaking in:
<http://www.orsiandweir.com/care_maintenance.php>
it seems like their procedure is designed to stabilize the wood by slowly balancing its moisture content.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-03-03 12:28
I was taught that it isn't just how you play it, it's where you keep it. Hot, cold, dry or damp = bad.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-03 12:50
Great, Bob. The Orsi article should be required reading. It is amazing that every wood clarinet doesnt crack.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-03-04 15:06
Clarinets are like pianos or even furniture..however with care and room temperature control the stresses that lead to cracking can be minimalized. However, grain and where the instrument posts sit can add to the factor.
Many orchestral colleagues of mine have talked with me repeatedly about how many pro grade instruments seem to be made without what is called the "straight" grain which should run parallel to the body of the clarinet. Other players have also mention the careless cutting of joins at the tenons etc. and this to can factor into stress..
An overly tight barrell can be the source of great worry on a newer model clarinet...extreme humidity or changes in humidity can also promote cracking. My first R13 cracked in March around the time of a major temperature change...so clarinets with all even with great care can still crack and at any time.
For most of my career I have seen only cracks in the upper joint..usually from the outer edge of the upper joint going to or through the A and G# key or tone holes. These types of cracks are usually hairline but need to be pinned. The worst thing to do is to play a cracked clarinet in fear of opening up the crack further. Pinning is usually the way most players go...
I had a Selmer clarinet which cracked in the upper joint 1st finger hole to the above pad hole...so that was a surprise..about maybe an inch long. This one happened in April...so maybe there is something to dramatic change in temperature....this clarinet was under a year old as well...
David Dow
Post Edited (2008-03-04 15:07)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-04 22:35
"Clarinets are like pianos or even furniture."
The point is well made to the extent that they are made of wood. However, the major stresses on a piano are carried by the metal plate. Few pieces of wood furniture ....that I've ever seen....contain hollow spindles. And lastly, pianos and furniture don't normally see water unless someone spills a drink on them.
Clarinets do not have to be made from wood as has been proven for some time but some things just change very slowly.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-03-06 12:33
Dear Bob
Does not a clarinet have a bunch of metal posts applied to it's wooden body?
If you want to count the posts sometime it adds up to quite alot of stress...on the upper joint a pile of metal posts have been screwed into the body of a piece of wood.
Pianos don't have to be made of wood either..
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-03-06 16:09
David,
you point out an "elegant" complication to my short-brained attempt to estimate the stresses in a wooden cylinder. The tone holes and posts all induce stress concentrations, and the threaded posts spreading the wood around them, conducting heat into and out of the wood, variations in airflow in the tone holes, "condensation" accumulation all conspire to make the problem of stress analysis in a clarinet a very difficult problem.
Another challenge for a master's degree project.
One would hope that there is a clarinet/oboe, etc maker out there with a technical department that knows the wood properties and their variability and has a contemporary math model of the wood stresses under assembly, storage and playing conditions.
Another challenge for a doctor's degree project.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-03-06 16:48
Bob Phillips wrote:
> One would hope that there is a clarinet/oboe, etc maker out
> there with a technical department that knows the wood
> properties and their variability and has a contemporary math
> model of the wood stresses under assembly, storage and playing
> conditions.
Why? Hundreds of years of empirical knowlege conspires to make the instrument "what it is". Possibly not the most elegant method, and of course can completely miss non-local minima and maxima, but good enough to play.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-07 11:45
"Does not a clarinet have a bunch of metal posts applied to it's wooden body?"
Absolutely correct, David. Nor do furniture or oboes have to be made from wood.
I like Mark's "conspiracy of empirical knowledge" . Also, let's not forget Joyce Kilmer's comment about trees.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-03-07 12:30
BTW AnnieMatilda,
It has been over a week. What did you buy?
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: AnnieMatilda
Date: 2008-03-08 11:08
James,
After reading the recent thread on intermediate clarinets, I feel a little shy at mentioning that I bought a Buffet E13. Despite what everyone else said on the other thread, I absolutely love it. The action is so smooth and it sounds lovely to me.
Some time in the future I may wish that i had made a different decision but after trying it in the shop I could not resist and for now I am very happy with it.
I have been playing it for 15 minutes a day so far but today I am increasing to 2 fifteen minute sessions. I have been learning to play for eleven months now so am very much a beginner.
Thank you all for your advice. I really enjoy this forum and although I don't post much I do read lots (some of which I can actually understand)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2008-03-08 13:48
I can't give any scientific evidence by any means, but I am in agreement with what GBK said. I sometimes think that if a clarinet is going to crack it will. I have known players who have absolutely babied their instruments and had multiple cracks. I have had a number of clarinets over the years and never had one crack. Knock on wood ;-) I have never broken one in according to what people suggest. I usually just play them. When I was young, I just didn't know that people did any differently. Maybe it is just dumb luck, or the wood doing what it wants to do.
I have known of some oboists who believe that the wood is under stress and that the cracks relieve that stress and help to open up the wood and improve the sound. I actually know of a player who would put his instrument in the freezer to encourage it to crack and get the inevitable out of the way and force that improvement. BTW- This is a very notable player, not some hack.
Who knows? I would suggest do what you think is best or feel comfortable with, burn some reeds at the altar of the mpingo god and hope for the best.
Post Edited (2008-03-08 14:17)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-03-08 14:04
Annie,
Congratulations on your new horn! Amongst all the talk for or against any clarinet, mouthpiece, ligature, technique, or what not...is the pervasive axiom that you must try and choose for yourself what works for you.
No need make apologies for what you like.
Ed,
I am in complete agreement with you and GBK. I have taken meticulous care of my horns and I have cracks. GBK has never had one and could easily condescend from that position, but does not.
James (and I do break in my horns).
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-10 21:01
I wonder! If we purchase or sell a wood clarinet and it is shipped via air isn't it possible it will be exposed to very low temperature...and possibly almost any humidity level?
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-03-10 21:30
> I wonder! If we purchase or sell a wood clarinet and it is shipped via air isn't
> it possible it will be exposed to very low temperature...and possibly almost
> any humidity level?
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=191427&t=191162
(scroll down towards the end)
The problem for a wood instrument is not (relative) extremes in temperature or humidity, but how fast such climatic changes occur.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-03-11 02:24
I have been playing clarinet professionally for 25 years..and can honestly say not all my clarinets have cracked..
my first pro Bb R13 Bb clarinet did crack..the A was fine...in 1996 a backup Selmer Prologue Clarinet did crack. It was under warrantly less than a YEAR and was repaired and played fine. I have used R13s and RC clarinets.
....So as to other having alot of cracks I have not shared that experience. My old set of Selmer Recitals did not crack either..I also live in Canada in a very wild environment for weather change too!
Now I use Yamaha YSG and this set is just fine after 2 years..so maybe there is something in the saliva? In all I have gone through 6 sets of clarinets up to this point..
David Dow
Post Edited (2008-03-11 02:25)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-03-11 16:29
I've met several technicians who WILL NOT ship a clarinet by air --preferring the variability of surface temperature and humidity to the assured dehydration and cold of the upper atmosphere.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Musinix
Date: 2008-03-11 19:21
Bob Phillips wrote:
> I've met several technicians who WILL NOT ship a clarinet by
> air --preferring the variability of surface temperature and
> humidity to the assured dehydration and cold of the upper
> atmosphere.
>
I ordered a hand selected clarinet from a respected Buffet dealer and mouthpiece craftsman last year. It arrived with a cracked bell and loose rings after being shipped via FedEX air. The clarinet was inspected and play tested before it was shipped. The dealer is a respected board member and, so I have no doubt that it was fine when it was shipped. I ended up returning the clarinet. Fortunately, the dealer was able to get a replacement bell from Buffet.
Thomas Fiebig
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tetiana
Date: 2008-03-11 19:30
Attachment: THE CARE AND FEEDING OF THE BRAND NEW CLARINET.doc (29k)
Hi AnnieMatilda
I purchased a set of perfectly wonderful new Buffet Prestige clarinets about a year and a half ago and was given very exacting instructions about breaking them in from the person who sold them to me. I followed them religiously and it seems to have worked fine. It may in part be because of the viscious climate (Montreal) I live in but you can't go wrong by erring on the side of caution. I'm attaching a document "Care and Feeding of the Brand New Clarinet" which I wrote up just after I bought the instruments. Enjoy!
tetiana
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: AnnieMatilda
Date: 2008-03-14 14:02
Thank you for posting your breaking in regime tetiana. I have been following the one recommended by CWH earlier in this thread and so far so good. I have been playing for 15 minutes twice a day this week and will start to increase it a little from tomorrow. The pamphlet that came with the instrument just says not to play continuously for more than half an hour daily for the first month.
Thank you all for your advice - now if someone can just give me a simple way of remembering the minor scales .................... ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Le9669
Date: 2009-08-12 01:35
Hi Annie;
think of harmonic minor scales like this
for example using A minor the notes are
A B C D E F G# A
the first and last 2 notes are the same as A major
the notes in between and the the first 4 of C major
So, if you know your major scales you can play your harmonic minors very well. Good luck! =)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: lrooff
Date: 2009-08-12 12:57
Cracks in the bell seem to be particularly common, but I suspect that this is due simply to the fact that the wood is turned relatively thin over a large area. My Selmer N-series horn had a crack in the bell when I bought it used in the 1960s, and the ring at the bottom of the bell gradually got looser until, when I sold it last year, it tended to rattle on some notes. This was despite liberal use of bore oil on the bell and was probably influenced by the incredibly dry climate here in southeastern Washington. This part of the state is classified topographically as semi-arid desert.
Other than that, the only one of my instruments with a crack is my flute, and since it's a six-key flute made about 1800, that's not much of a surprise.
Wood being what it is, an organic material with natural microscopic flaws that don't reveal themselves right away, I'm inclined to think that the only sure way to eliminate cracks in a high-end clarinet is to get a Ridenour or, perhaps, a Greenline Buffet. Otherwise, the flaws lie dormant until conditions change and then emerge as a crack.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rusty
Date: 2009-08-12 22:21
What I can`t understand is the need to keep things dry by removing all traces of water from the clarinet and never forget to use the pullthru`. It seems to me that a wood section would be more prone to cracking as it dries out while keeping it wet ensures the cells in the wood remain intact and in shape.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2009-08-13 04:30
play for 20 mins at a time only, and allow to air dry for the first two full weeks you own it. You should not swab it till the first two weeks have past. These are Buffet specifications for a new wooden clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: lycfmtkl
Date: 2009-08-14 04:01
Just play as long as you like.
Swab it completely after playing and put it back into the case.
I have bought 5 new wooden clarinet in the last 5 years and I never listen to those advice to break in a new clarinet. However, none of my clarinets break up to now !!!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-08-14 06:04
Going through a convoluted and extensive break-in regimen, then having no cracks subsequently, and attributing that to the break-in regimen is a lot like repelling tigers by standing on a table, waving your arms, and repeatedly reciting the Gettysburg Address in Middle English, then recommending the technique to others as a sure-fire way to avoid being mauled in their living rooms.
(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)
B.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BrianChau
Date: 2009-08-14 07:15
Speaking of breaking in clarinets, I will be back home after about 6 weeks of vacation. My clarinet was left in its case in Vancouver, and I don't know if I should break it in again.
Brian
EDIT: Yes it is wooden.
Brian Chau
University of British Columbia Concert Winds
Post Edited (2009-08-14 07:16)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
