 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-02-27 13:58
Ny daughter has been barraged with recruiting lliterature for various music schools this year (her Junior year).
One that appeals to her is DePaul University in Chicago. Looking at the faculty is quite impressive. Larry Combs, Julie deRoche, and others. We are considering taking a couple of days to head out to Chicago and visit the campus, but I was wondering if anyone here has firsthand knowledge of the school. Any insights? We would appreciate greatly any info you might have.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2008-03-04 20:03)
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Author: Imperial Zeppelin
Date: 2008-02-27 15:57
DePaul is the "quiet school." Its reputation is good, especially since many CSO members teach there, but it's never on a list of top flight schools.
I think the important thing to do is check on the ensembles, besides the teachers who as you mentioned, are impressive. I've heard very little about the quality of the ensembles. You may also want to find out what Larry's future holds. Will he stay in Chicago once he leaves the CSO?
If you're making the long trek up North, you should also work in Northwestern and Indiana University into your itinerary. In terms of Texan dimensions, Northwestern is just up the street from DePaul and IU is "down the road a bit."
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Author: 53engine
Date: 2008-02-27 18:02
Larry Combs, Julie deRoche and there's a question about sending a child to this school. My playing would benefit by just walking down the same hall with these guys. In addition to their playing talents, both Larry and Julie are excellent teachers and, in the few contacts that I have had with them, very personable and giving of their time and knowledge.
I have a lot of experience with education, PhD, MBA, like that, and I will tell you from many years of experience. While the big name schools have a certain benefit in terms of contacts, DePaul is a fine music school and the two individuals that you mentioned certainly have all the contacts that one would ever need for future references. Another thing about a smaller school is that the student is less likely to be taught by a graduate student and more likely to be taught by an accomplished, experienced player professor.
I went to a very new, small city campus of a major state university and there were only two buildings at that time, no graduate students and mostly hungry, aggressive PhD professors who used the undergraduate students for research assistants. Consequently, when I got to graduate school, I had years of laboratory experience compared to the other graduate students in my class that had gone to large, big name universities.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-02-27 18:39
Actually, we are in the Detroit area, so a visit to Chicago is not as big a trip as it may have looked from the IP listing on my post. I think that's just because we use SBC for an Internet provider. We are also working a visit to Richard Hawkins at Oberlin into our schedule for next week. The chase begins!
We have already scouted out U of Cincinnati and Western Michigan University. Michigan is also a consideration, as is Indiana. I never heard who took over the clarinet program at Michigan State, so I will have to check into that, too.
Thanks!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2008-03-04 20:05)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-02-27 23:38
Get on I75, go south about 110 miles and BGSU is on your right. Honk when you pass the Buck Rd. exit and I'll wave.
Eli Eban is giving a master class at the Clarinet Conference on March 29th. My tech, Eric Satterlee, will be there doing repairs. He is really a trip. we have some "pretty good" clarinetists in Ohio, BTW.
Here's the link.
http://www.bgsu.edu/colleges/music/events/clarinet.html
HRL
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-02-28 13:34
Hank, we passed by your place to and from Cincy on Thursday and Sunday of last week, visiting my folks down there. I have stopped in BG a number of times in the past when I had friends attending school there.
I'll look into the Masterclass.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-02-28 17:05
I graduated many MANY years ago. If it is what it was, I can imagine it a low key place with great private instruction for clarinet. The wind ensembles and orchestra are also very good.
Of course you'll be just a few miles from Morales' new home.....Orchestra Hall and that ain't all bad.
Say, I wonder if he'll be teaching at Northwestern or DePaul????
The next BIG question :-)
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-02-28 18:20
Hi Jeff,
I've got a number of BB pals coming that day (my joke is I'll pay your way in if you get me breakfast or lunch). I hope to see you there. Be sure to honk next time passing through.
I'm a graduate of and a former faculty member at BGSU. I think the university "has it all hooked" if you don't mind flat land, few vistas, and some pretty breezy winter weather.
HRL
PS I took lessons from Ed Marks a Gigliotti student and Lou Marini, Sr. on sax. Great teachers.
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Author: BornAgainClarinetist
Date: 2008-03-03 20:32
I know that there is a theme on this board of if you cannot say anything nice at all but I disagree with that and I believe that dissenting opinions should be heard.
DePaul isn't as great of a school as it really is made out to be. Having Mr. Combs on the faculty is impressive but students who go there are lucky if they get to study with him for their last year of schooling. Julie is a fanastic teacher for learning the fundamentals of playing clarinet, she can only be rivaled by Yehuda Gilad in this area. However, Julie's personality is very very strong and unless you completely submit to her will, she can inflict psychological damage that maybe only Richard Woodhams can do to his students at curtis. I cannot tell you how many students have left that school destroyed based on her methods of psychological manipulation.
With that said, I'm sure you can find three students for every one that would have a negative view that would vouch for her until the day they die but it is worth considering that one could end up in that not so pleasant twenty five percent. Further more, I have observed that in that twenty five percent reside some of the most gifted clarinetists I have ever met.
Good luck with your quest for colleges. We are lucky that there are so many great ones out there to choose from.
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2008-03-03 21:26
I did my undergrad DePaul and while I studied with Combs my entire time there I did spend a little time studying with both Julie DeRoche and John Yeh. Larry is an amazing clarinetist and his teaching seems to center on a few main points. He reiterates these points again and again and again and again as if you have never heard them. It was very frustrating. That being said, the points he does belabor are very good and necessary for solid playing. I am glad to have that foundation now in my playing, but at the time I found him very discouraging. When I left DePaul, I hated clarinet and was glad my lessons were finished. After some time to work at my own pace away from everything, I was able to piece it together and make something of what Combs taught me. My main objection to him was his style of teaching. I have discussed this with other students of his and we all seemed to feel like strangers to him. If you have ever heard his orchestra excerpt CD then you have a snippet of how his lessons go. He does speak in the third person to you like he does on the CD. We used to joke that we would really like to meet this guy named "one", because he must be amazing! All in all, I did learn from him, but it was not easy.
My time with Julie was along the lines of the above poster. She is a fine clarinetist and teacher, but she and I did not fit. I think it was more me than her. She was very engaged and approachable.
I don't really have any info on Wagner's teaching, but while at DePaul he was a classmate of mine. He is an excellent player and a very nice guy.
The rest of my education there was fine and pretty predicable. There were some great players there when I was there and I got to play next to them and more importantly hear them on a regular basis. I played with Wagner, Gene Mondie, Paul Demers, Ilya Shternberg, and Tim Zavadil. They were great to hear and I was happy to play with those guys.
My favorite teacher there was, ironically, the band director. He was not liked by many of the students, but I really liked his no-nonsense attitude toward rehearsals. Simply put, he would take nothing less than your best. He demanded his students come prepared, play all the notes, play in tune, and play musically. I have that work ethic now and credit him with that in my career as a clarinetist. He was one of the few teachers there who actually cared about that. My other teachers, including Combs, did not seem bothered in the least by a lack of preparedness. While it might seem obvious to have that kind of work ethic already, as an 18 year old kid with a lot of talent, I needed that.
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Author: jderoche
Date: 2008-03-04 14:26
Hello All,
I’m sorry to hear that these two former students feel so disgruntled. Certainly they have a right to express their views. At the same time, it is important to remember that these are views of only a very small portion of the students we have educated at DePaul. And although I have no intention of directly arguing with either of them, or denying their right to state their opinions, in the interest of my reputation and that of Larry’s and
DePaul’s, I must say that it is quite clear to Larry and me who these students are and why they might feel the way they do. (And yes – we both read this bulletin board.)
What I would like to say is that when a student enters DePaul, it is our responsibility to educate them to the best of our ability. We both have experience, and we continue to learn, and we try to pass on to our students what we have gained through this experience and through the words of our own teachers. Lessons are actually major courses in the degree, with syllabi, grades, and requirements. And although I admit to having firm ideas of what will make a student grow as a player and as a person, and I pursue those ideas with vigor, I think manipulation is not part of the package. I always tell my students what they will gain by working on what I suggest, and most are ready and willing to give it a try. My methods do tend to prove themselves to those who use them. Sometimes our instructions take awhile to sink in, but with time, they work (as Dave states in his message.) I still hear my teachers in my ear when I listen to a recording of myself and realize what I need to continue to work on. And most important, all of this is done with the best interest of the student in mind. Whether they believe that or not, it’s true.
I am a strong person I guess, but I care for my students and their education. When they refuse to try what I ask, or cause us to have to repeat ourselves over and over, it can be frustrating to the student and to us. Because the truth is – we do give students information that will make them fine musicians and great clarinet players, and those who listen and try do very well in life - whether it is performing in orchestras, teaching students of all ages and levels, playing in freelance settings, or moving on to entirely different fields – all things that I consider success.
In fact, the list that Dave sites - Wagner, Gene Mondie, Paul Demers, Ilya Shternberg, and Tim Zavadil, are - in order – teaching at DePaul and pursuing a thriving freelance career in Chicago, playing in the National Symphony in D.C., Philadelphia Orchestra, San Antonio Symphony, and Minnesota Orchestra. And we have so many other students doing so many fine things that I cannot name them all.
I do have to say this. If you want to learn and grow, we can help you, in a demanding but supportive atmosphere. But if you feel that you already know everything and simply want a school to help you remain the clarinetist you currently are, I must admit that DePaul is probably not right for you.
All my best, and thank you for an interesting discussion. It is very good to air views.
Julie DeRoche
Clarinet Professor, Chair Performance Dept.
DePaul University School of Music
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-03-04 14:52
As far as competitiveness goes, a number of Indiana graduates have been winning auditions lately.
There are also many very successful players who graduate from Cincinnati Conservatory of Music.
As a DePaul graduate I can say that my experience was a positive one and I feel that I learned what was necessary to be competitive as well. DePaul is NOT a conservatory and for that matter it is not even Northwestern, but it has a fine program and good instructors.
Is My Pi Pizza still across the street?
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: jderoche
Date: 2008-03-04 15:14
No, Mi Pi is not there anymore. Remember Paul, it has been quite awhile since you have been at DePaul, and you might be amazed at the changes that have occurred. I imagine you might not recognize it. Check out DePaul wind ensemble recordings on Albany label to see how much the ensembles have changed, for example. Certainly I am not saying that there are no other good schools. There are many. But DePaul is not the school it was even 15 years ago.
Clarinet Professor, Chair Performance Dept.
DePaul University School of Music
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2008-03-04 18:34
Hi Julie! Thanks for the post.
Well I certainly did not mean to come off as a disgruntled former student. I only meant to relay my personal experiences at DePaul. Despite a few negatives for me that I stated above, I have never hesitated to recommend DePaul for my students. In fact, I have two former students there now.
I cannot disagree with anything that Julie wrote; she is spot on. As anyone can tell from her post, she is, as I said, engaged and cares deeply about what she does. Julie is the kind of teacher who is always there for the student. I never thought of her as some sort of tough, autocratic teacher characterized by bornaginclarinetist. She is, IMO, very friendly. I wish I had spent more time studying with her.
I will be the first to admit that when I was there, I was probably a nightmare to teach! Karma has brought me my share of little nightmares to teach in the past 10 years and those lessons go exactly like mine did with Julie. So I can confidently say that being the punk that I was, I was the cause of any conflicts with her.
David Mitchell
Nashville Symphony Orchestra
Vanderbilt University
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-03-04 19:39
I appreciate the back and forth of the discussion I started with my question. I hope that we can continue it in a civilized and constructive manner.
While we were unable to schedule a campus visit for this week, due to final auditions going on this month, we hope to travel to Chicago sometime soon to get a feel for the area and to check out DePaul and some of the other well-regarded music schools in the vicinity. That, and to visit with Walter Grabner personally.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2008-03-04 20:08)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-03-04 22:58
Being a major conservatory clarinet teacher myself, Peabody in Baltimore, I find this quite interesting. I’ve had students from a great many other teachers come to me for anywhere from a single lesson to years of study. Some having moved into my area or just to get another opinion for a clarinet audition, to taking a few bass clarinet lessons. I believe there is not a teacher in the country that doesn’t have a few students that simply did not get along with their teacher because of personality, teaching technique or any number of other things. I’m sure there are a few students of mine that don’t think the most of me for whatever the reason but I know that the vast majority of them were happy with me and made great progress under my tutelage. It’s just human not to be able to please everyone no matter how hard we try. I will say though that I’ve never had a student that studied with Julie or Larry that had anything to say but the highest praise for them both. There are a lot of very fine teachers out there, many not that well known. You don’t have to be a famous player to be a good teacher. As a matter of fact many great players are not necessary good teachers because everything came so natural to them that they don’t really know how to solve your problems since they never had to deal with it. Leon Russianoff was the perfect example; he played well but never became known as a player, but what a great teacher. Of course there are those that are great players that also become great teachers. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: Carmen
Date: 2008-03-08 18:41
Hello.
It has been a long time since I have written on this board. I am a recent graduate of DePaul University (June 2007). I must say that everyone's experience at any school is very different and may experience different things. My personal experience at DePaul I believe is a very positive one. I thoroughly enjoyed and benefited from studying with professors DeRoche and Combs and owe a great deal of my playing to them. They both have provided with a thorough and intense cirriculum for clarinet and music in general and FIRMLY believe that they are very interested in the student as well as the musician (professor Deroche is always able to read her students well...almost too well since we seldom want to admit our own shortcomings [that is supposed to be funny]) I currently play in the Civic Orchestra of Chicago, and have recently had very good luck with my graduate school auditions, and feel that my training under these teachers and other faculty at DePaul have been the number one reason for this. Every school has its share of pros and cons, and some individuals experience one side more than the other. My own at the school perhaps has been lucky playing with a terrific wind ensemble for almost 4 years there, playing with a great collegiate orchestra at least once my sophomore, junior and senior years there, and working with other instrumental/voice faculty through chamber music. Does everyone receive great part assignments or success from attending? No...but such is the case at any music school. I apologize for this redundancy of this post, I only want to give a positive and RECENT account for what I have enjoyed at DePaul. Feel free to email me any questions regarding specifics. I feel that it is my responsibility as a recent alum to respond to this posting. thank you!
Carmen
***...so do all who seen such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you can do is decide what to do with the time that is given to you.***
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Author: Carmen
Date: 2008-03-08 19:08
Also,
James , BornAgainClarinetist, cysoclarinet1, or LeOpus1190S what ever name you are currently calling yourself on this board...were you even a student at DePaul University? I don't recall you attending any classes in the last 4 years and think that this thread is regarding the entire Music school and those who have studied with Professors Combs and DeRoche as consistent students.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-03-09 00:13
Thanks for the replies. We will be trying to arrange a visit there in the near future. Our daughter came back from a lesson with Richard Hawkins at Oberlin yesterday and was very happy with the school. We will have to see how she likes other schools, as well.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: patrickryan04
Date: 2008-03-09 16:32
Hello,
I hope this post is correct this is a first time post for me.
I am a clarinetist in the Army Band deployed to Iraq. I am seeking entrance into a music school upon completion of my tour in Iraq. My tour will end sometime close to the 09 audition dates, however, I will not be able to visit any professors for lessons or to check out any of the schools. I was wondering if sending in a tape of my playing would be in order.
I am interested in Oberlin, CCM Depaul and IU. If someone could please guide me in the correct course of action I would be very gratefull.
Thanks,
Patrick
1st Armored Division Band
Clarinetist
Dixie Band
Woodwind Quintet
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-03-09 16:44
patrickryan04 wrote:
> If someone
> could please guide me in the correct course of action I would
> be very gratefull.
The ONLY correct course of action is to contact the schools directly! They all have admissions departments with emails online, and I'll bet they will all explain exactly what the criteria will be in this circumstance.
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2008-03-10 20:20
<ratemyprofessors.com> is a great site for the good, the bad, and the ugly of college teaching. A search for "clarinet" will get you a long list of clarinet teachers. You can also search by school or by name.
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