 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Copland
Date: 2008-02-02 23:17
Hello everybody!
I recently bought a new mouthpiece, and like most mouthpieces, it didn't come with any sort of patch on top. In the past, I hadn't even given a second thought to the presence of a patch, which I had on my previous mouthpiece (a B45). Now, I've started wondering about them.
What are the pros of using them? Cons? I need help deciding if I should put one on my new mouthpiece (Fobes Debut).
An interesting observation that I've made: at my high school, most of the clarinet players (probably around 99%) have them, whereas for the saxophonists, I haven't seen anyone with a mouthpiece patch. Are the issues somewhat different for saxophone mouthpieces? I'm interested in this because I recently started doubling on alto and don't know if I should have one on its mouthpiece.
Thanks!
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Author: Lynn
Date: 2008-02-03 00:03
I, personally, like them. They not only serve to protect the mp, but they tend to serve as an "anchor" for my embouchure. I also attach a second one on the front of my mp to prevent my single-screw Bay ligature from slipping off when I change from Bb to A. The patch seems to provide a firm gripping surface for the ligature, yet it doesn't seem to effect the tonal quality of my setup. FWIW.
Lynn
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Author: Chalumeau Joe
Date: 2008-02-03 00:17
I use a very thin patch, not only to help protect the mp, but also to anchor my teeth. I tried the thicker black patch but couldn't get used to it (just felt too weird).
Some players believe patches (esp. the thicker ones) will dampen the mp's responsiveness. I, personally, never experienced this.
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Author: davidsampson
Date: 2008-02-03 00:40
I liked the idea that came with my Walter Grabner: electrical tape. Its thin, your teeth stick in it, its comfortable, and its cheap. I put some on all my mouthpieces now.
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Author: Liam Murphy
Date: 2008-02-03 01:01
Copland,
I use very thin BG clear patches. Only for mouthpiece protection though, I've never really needed to use them for the purpose of an embouchure anchor.
I also use a patch on my Brilhart 5* alto sax mouthpiece. For the sax, I find the patch to be more necessary for some reason. Maybe this is because I find the shape of my sax mouthpiece to be less familiar to my clarinet mouthpiece, and I want the sax's to feel more like my clarinet mouthpiece. (A Vandoren B40).
Pros:
-They're supposed to make your top teeth (assuming normal embouchure) not slide around, and act as a griping surface (an expensive one at that)
-They should prevent any "indentation" on your mouthpiece and any scratches.
Cons:
-I've heard that they can "dampen" your sound because of their contact with the mouthpiece
-They might feel a little "Weird"
At my high school, the opposite of your observation seems to be true: Most of the members of the senior wind ensemble's clarinet section, use mouthpiece patches. Whereas I can't think of one sax player that uses one in any ensemble.
Have a nice day,
-Liam
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Author: Copland
Date: 2008-02-03 13:18
Thanks for all your responses!
"At my high school, the opposite of your observation seems to be true: Most of the members of the senior wind ensemble's clarinet section, use mouthpiece patches. Whereas I can't think of one sax player that uses one in any ensemble."
That's actually the case at my school too, I think you might have misunderstood what I said...
I'll give electrical tape a try, and I'll also try the thin ones, see what I like. At the local music store, a bag of around 4 thin patches is something like 5 dollars. Is that normal?
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-02-03 13:39
Hi Copland,
The sax embouchure is a bit more relaxed so you don't need a patch.
I did play without a patch for a while but it wasn't as comfortable. I think it helps the grip as well. I don't believe for one second that it affects the sound in any way.
Steve
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Author: srattle
Date: 2008-02-03 14:15
I always like using a patch because otherwise the vibrations can be a bit overwhelming. I notice a bit of a tonal change, but that's to do with how I hear the sound coming through my teeth/mouth. It doesn't seem to change anything outwardly
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-02-03 15:21
Electrical tape is a cost effective way of protecting a mouthpiece that the buyer might wish to return. There seems to be evidence that mp patches in general might alter the sound....either that experienced by the player or heard by others.
Many sax mps are metal and this may mean something. Patches can be removed if one finds them useless. (and they can cover up teeth marks)
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-02-03 15:32
A thin patch is probably a good idea but not necessary. When I was a student, in the late 50s early 60s, no one used patches, at least that I could tell. Most people began using tape or something like it when the vibration of the MP bothered them. Then some began using a thicker patch to simulate double lip playing, having the soft cushion, as it would be if the lip would be under the top teeth. Some use thick or even double patches to keep their throat and mouth more opened. It's a very individual choice. I never used them until a few years ago on both clarinet and bass clarinet when I tried a thin transparent one and like it. I think the player may feel there's a slight difference in tone but unless one uses a very thick or double patch, which might open your sound up somewhat, I doubt if anyone else could notice. Four patches for five bucks is pretty normal. They do last a long time. ESP
Peabody.jhu.edu/457
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2008-02-03 15:48)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-02-03 15:51
The patch reduces the transmission of mpc vibration into your skull through your teeth, thus playing with a patch makes your perception of your sound change.
Dr. Maxine Ramey recommended a thick patch to one of her master class students as a means of encouraging her to open her jaw and upper throat. Prof. DelDiudice said that a thick patch opens him up too much, so he doesn't use one.
My teacher cuts his mpc patches in half --reducing the add-on damping effect of the elastomer laying over the mouthpiece baffle.
My teacher thinks that a thick patch allows the player to established new teeth marks to change the amount of mouthpiece taken into the mouth. New posture --new mouthpiece. In my case, my teeth do not emboss themselves into the patch.
Bob Phillips
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-02-04 06:15
-- "My teacher cuts his mpc patches in half --reducing the add-on damping effect of the elastomer laying over the mouthpiece baffle." --
Oh no, here we go! We've had years of discussions on ligatures, cutting the middle out of Bonade's, which diameter shoelace is best, the effect of key plating on the sound etc.
Now it's the turn of patches.
Personally I use 0.75 mm customised non-allergenic double strength PVC gold plated patches and always cut the middle out. Anything else just dampens the sound!
;-)
Steve
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-02-04 06:45
For years since I started playing I never used a patch, simply because I didn't know they exist. At some point I tried a mouthpiece that already came with a patch, and from that point I started using a patch. It just felt less slippery and more comfortable. After years of using the patch (thin ones, the thick one I tried was not comfortable at all) I tried an old mouthpiece without a patch and it was very uncomfortable. I guess it also helps protecting the mouthpiece but I never noticed any problems in the years I wasn't using it.
I don't think it makes any difference between clarient and saxophone. Most people I know who play either clarinet or saxophone use a patch, and some prefer the way it feels without one. IMO it doesn't dampen or change the sound at all. After about two years it was time to change a patch, and before I put the new one on I played without it, and a couple of other players happened to be here and listened. None of us heard any difference after I put the patch back.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2008-02-04 09:07
Tried them, didn't take to them. Personally my teeth don't mark the mouthpiece hardly at all - though they used to when I was a beginner.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-02-04 09:12
I use the thin BG patches - the give me some grip to "clamp on", and the occasional buzzing impression is gone. The patch gets an asymmetric tooth impression over time and I'm pretty sure I'd mark a naked mouthpiece.
Couldn't do without now. It's like motorbiking without a helmet, or driving without the belt on.
--
Ben
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2008-02-04 23:50
The use of a patch on the mouthpiece seems to be a positive one all the way around. It's a good anchor, it keeps the annoying vibrations from your head and it protects your mouthpiece. I was not sure about the dampening effect until I experimented with about 30 mouthpieces. I used Vandorens, Selmer, Bay, Morgan, LeBlanc, Gennusa, G Smith and Yamaha mouthpieces and I tried to use different tips and lays.
The results were not surprising at all but it never did occur to me that the construction of the piece was the reason some pieces were muted and others were not affected at all. The pieces that were heavily scooped at the roof so the baffle was far away from the reed were the ones that suffered when a patch was placed on top. The mouthpiece was very thin at this spot and as soon as I pulled the patch off, it opened up immediately. I have never had a problem with either my Bay or Morgan but there were several Vandorens that suffered greatly.
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Author: Keith P
Date: 2008-02-05 01:08
To answer your question about professionals - I have seen quite a few pros who use them on their mouthpieces. In fact, when I tried several different mouthpieces of a professor's stash when I auditioned for him this past weekend, his entire stash of 20 or so mouthpieces all had patches on them, including the Kaspar he normally plays on. I have never really noticed a dampening of sound as a result of mouthpiece patches. Hope this helps!
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