 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-01-01 19:27
There's a video of Julian Bliss performing the 3rd movement of the Mozart concerto at a Proms Concert in England.
He looks a little young, it might be from a year ago or so.
He's playing a long clarinet so he gets the lowest notes etc.
If you have time check it out.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: armadillo
Date: 2008-01-01 21:23
Great tongueing!
buffet R13, VD M30, V12 #3, VD Klassik (perf. & reh)/Rovner leather(practice)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2008-01-02 01:10
Trippy. The music isn't matching the movememnts of the fingers on my computer. Maybe it just loaded wierd, but it's freakin' me out man!!! lol. Fantastic playing though. Makes me do two contradicting things....
1) Practice more.
2) Give up the clarinet in shame cause he's so much further along at such a younger age.
Hmmm . . . I think, due to new years, I'll at least try out option one a little while.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Tara
Date: 2008-01-02 04:39
Wow! I saw Julian perform in Oklahoma 6 or 7 years ago when the Clarinetfest was at OU. Hadn't seen/heard his playing since that time. I notice on the YouTube page it says he studies with Sabine Meyer. When he was here he was with another teacher.... Paul something? Forgive me for not remembering... Anyone?
Thanks for the link!
Tara
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-01-02 05:13
Tara wrote:
> When he was here he was with another
> teacher.... Paul something? Forgive me for not remembering...
> Anyone?
Howard Klug
...GBK
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Author: Firebird
Date: 2008-01-02 12:08
In many respects, it was a superb performance for a 17 year old!
However, IMHO, I felt that his performance lacks the kind of maturity and depth required for this piece, or perhaps it's just me. it's just a feel, so don't start gunning me down with all the firepower you all have.
Maybe we can hear him play Mozart when he's older.
Chan
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-01-02 12:36
Firebird wrote:
> However, IMHO, I felt that his performance lacks the kind of
> maturity and depth required for this piece, or perhaps it's
> just me.
Explain, please (not using all the firepower, just a question, since you posted.)
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Author: Robyn_765
Date: 2008-01-02 13:00
I thought it was fantastic and am amazed that #1) he played it from memory - is this normal? It was over 8 minutes with no obvious mistakes or slips! #2) he is 17 and was playing a solo for the Queen of England!
-- Robyn
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-01-02 15:05
I had a quick relisten to his Messager (he was 12)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_-qztHtkKA
and although I thought the Messager was amazing he has reached yet another level in the stratosphere. The technique is even better, and the control of his sound and shading of colors has tremendously improved. His reading of the Mozart is a tad fast for me, I understand it's a concerto but isn't the scherzo supposed to be a dance?
In any case, I look forward to hearing more of him and wish him a properous career
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Wes
Date: 2008-01-02 20:54
A wonderful performance, but I find it difficult to watch all that weaving and bobbing of his body. He goes left or right to start a phrase and I see no point in the motions. It must be show biz!
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-01-02 22:01
...or maybe it's just that performing a dance moving inspires one to...dance?
And when you can play it that well...I didn't detect the movement detracting from his performance, which is the primary reason to remain stable.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Firebird
Date: 2008-01-02 23:09
Mark Charette wrote:
> Explain, please (not using all the firepower, just a question, since you posted.)
It's all just my personal and humble opinion that he takes the tempo too fast, and thus the feel and character of some contrasting parts, like the clarinet dialogue (or do you call it a monologue?) with itself is lost, and, once again IMHO, he seems to play it like a joyous piece altogether, and thus losing the feel feel of the more sombre and darker parts in the movement.
Once again, it is necessary to restate, for political correctness, it's all IMHO. No need to take a quick comment from a small fry too seriously.
Chan
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-01-02 23:19
Firebird wrote:
> It's all just my personal and humble opinion that he takes the
> tempo too fast, and thus the feel and character of some
> contrasting parts, like the clarinet dialogue (or do you call
> it a monologue?) with itself is lost, and, once again IMHO, he
> seems to play it like a joyous piece altogether, and thus
> losing the feel feel of the more sombre and darker parts in the
> movement.
It's much more satisfying to the reader when a poster gives the rationale behind their opinions. Now we can have some discourse on what was done and why ...
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-01-02 23:39
Its definitely impressive. I had some of the same observations Chan did. What's more surprising, though, is that people continue to give him a pass for his age. So, he was 17 when this was done? I've seen 18 years olds who play it better (not hyperbole, I promise you). Furthermore, I've seen plenty of 20-23 years old who play at a much higher level. At some point, people are going to have to separate him from prodigy status and measure him against the other young professionals in the field. To my ear, the whole movement was played with the same character, rushed forward from beginning to end.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-01-03 00:07
By memory is no big deal whatsoever even at that age or younger than that - the Mozart Concerto is quite easy to memorize.
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"Furthermore, I've seen plenty of 20-23 years old who play at a much higher level."
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Yeah, so ...... An older player will most likely play it better. He will play it much better when he gets older too. Julian is a rare talent. There are plenty of really good 20 yr olds out there, but I'll bet that he will be better than that when he's 20 also.
His CD which was recorded when he was 16 was quite musically mature. Not mature for a 16 yr old, just plain mature. He didn't play anything spastically or rushed like one might expect from a youngster with that much technique, it was controled and stayed musical at all times.
The boy can play!! 
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Firebird
Date: 2008-01-03 00:12
Erm David, would you mind explaining the difference between musically mature and just being plain mature?
Chan
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2008-01-03 01:12
This is not a scherzo, as someone seemed to think. Nor - in my nobody's opinion - does it have anything to do with dance music. (I'd welcome info to the contrary.)
There is probably more than one good argument for playing it slower than Bliss does here, but I like the quick tempo. I agree that there could be more contrast in the darker sections, but dark can be quick too! I've heard great recordings of Mozart piano concertos where concluding rondos are taken both quickly and effectively. Bliss may not say the last word along those lines, but neither does he use the tempo unjustifiably to show off.
I think Bliss's beautifully smooth legato-tongued sextolets sound nicer than the more detached styles I've heard, at least in the statements of the main theme. He had me trying to do the same this evening in my scale work, for an hour. A good lesson!
And a good performance by Bliss.
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Author: armadillo
Date: 2008-01-03 01:59
I agree David about Julian's CD, simply a great clarinet CD with excellent playing to have in my collection - no matter about the age of the performer.
buffet R13, VD M30, V12 #3, VD Klassik (perf. & reh)/Rovner leather(practice)
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Author: brycon
Date: 2008-01-03 02:12
I also saw Julian's performance at the Clarinetfest in Norman, OK. Sorry to contradict you GBK, but I am pretty sure he was studying with Paul Harris at the time. I could be wrong, but I remember Harris accompanying him everywhere.
Anyways, I'm glad to see Bliss growing musically and technically. Rather than fizzling out like many so called "child-prodigies" he has added a level of refinement to his playing that is great to hear.
I am always amazed by all of the arm-chair (or computer chair) critics on you-tube. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of a performance, but reading people's comments correcting Julian Bliss, Michael Collins, Sabine Meyer, etc. is very frustrating. It must be jealousy (I hope)...
Post Edited (2008-01-03 02:13)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-01-03 02:26
brycon wrote:
> I also saw Julian's performance at the Clarinetfest in Norman,
> OK. Sorry to contradict you GBK, but I am pretty sure he was
> studying with Paul Harris at the time. I could be wrong, but I
> remember Harris accompanying him everywhere.
That sounds right. I believe he started studying with Howard Klug in 2001 (he went to IU at 12, he's 18 now, so that would be close, anyway). In 2000 at Norman he'd have been 11.
Glenn, were you thinking of the U Md ClarinetFest?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-01-03 02:57
Philip,
Generally speaking compound meters (3/8, 6/8, etc...) are "dance" oriented because of the triple division of the beat.
Yes, there are many examples that can be thought of that don't support this...but if most pieces can be boiled down to either a song or dance, then the third movement of the Mozart is a dance.
Agreed, it's not a scherzo.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: donald
Date: 2008-01-03 03:42
Paul Harris then Howard Klug then Sabine Meyer... you could do a lot worse
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-01-03 11:09
I asked:
Julian was with Paul Harris until Aug 2000, when he went to Bloomington aged 10 to study with Howard Klug. He started with Sabine when he got back to England in 2002, aged 12.
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Author: Tara
Date: 2008-01-03 13:00
Thanks brycon and Mark... I knew it wasn't Klug... as I recall Harris presented a lecture on teaching the gifted child.
Tara
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-01-03 13:54
Ok, my bad. The last movement is not a scherzo. In my edition it is marked rondo: allegro. He certainly plays it allegro, and I guess rondo has nothing to do with dance. Yet stylistically, I just find it to be slightly off mark. To me this movement is not only a display of what the basset clarinet can do in competent hands, but also a light hearted playful discussion/courtship between characters. Going fast, doesn't leave the characters enough time to seduce one another.
Don't get me wrong this is still great playing, but not my favorite.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2008-01-03 21:51
Brycon: it is quite easy for listneners, even newbies, to notice imperfections in performances of almost any kind. No performance is perfect. In many cases it is harder, because of various issues the listener is dealing with, to appreciate the excellent things that happen in music.
I don't mind people disagreeing about intepretive choices - I don't usually think of them as arm-chair critics. It is defensible to assume that "the music listener" is the highest authority (though that discussion could get involved.) However, it would be nice if they also at least acknowleged the great things that artists like Bliss, Collins, Meyer, et al pull off, to indicate they did listen with all their ears.
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-01-04 07:03
Sylvain wrote: "I guess rondo has nothing to do with dance".
In the context of the Mozart, maybe not. But historically rondo (or rondeau) was indeed a dance form.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-01-05 12:25
I seem to remember a conversation with a fine Violinist who stated that Menuhin made most of his finest recordings as a young player and a young man. His later work he described as dull and "messy". However, it may be a point that one may not always improve.
I did not agree with this player on some points but do agree it seems Yehudi's best recordings were made as a youth.
David Dow
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Author: Kevin
Date: 2008-01-05 13:04
Attachment: binky.jpg (40k)
I don't know, maybe I'm completely clueless as to what good clarinet playing is supposed to sound like - but my ears are trying to tell me that this is a perfectly mature, nuanced, and technically sound performance, 17 years old or not.
For all this talk about "maturity" or "personal taste" or whatever, I wonder what percentage of BBoard posters would be able to tell the difference in a blind test between the playing of Julian Bliss, Sabine Meyer, Binky Barnes or Eddie McDonaschwarzismithajohnson. Probably a lot smaller than you'd think.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-01-05 13:48
You might be surprised Kevin,
The difference between Bliss and Meyer would probably be pretty easy, considering they play two completely different types of clarinet...if you know what to listen for it's a dead giveaway.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2008-01-06 13:58
Blind listening judgements are notoriously difficult in music, even for professional critics. Witness the grand hoax involving pianist Joyce Hatto.
For one thing, many performers play quite differently from performance to performance, especially as regards recording vs. live concerts. For another, reproduction fidelity can differ widely.
This fact does not invalidate listener's opinions, or undercut their making observations. What does weaken many opinions, though, is categorical statements therein that are based on limited data. I don't see many of those in this thread, or on this board, thank goodness.
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Author: eefer ★2017
Date: 2008-01-07 15:48
I have been following Jullian Bliss since he was eleven years old when I first saw/heard him at ClarinetFest in OK in 2000. I still have the recording from that ClarinetFest of his recital. I remember distinctly the fellow performing after him saying, " And just how do I follow that"? I believe the teacher he was studying with at the time was Paul Harvey. I know he was attending the Purcell School at the time of the 2000 performance. His study with Howard Klug came later. He is now 18.
Julian performed the Mozart here in Baltimore, MD in November 2006. I had the pleasure of sitting with his mother during his Saturday evening performance of the Mozart. It is one of the most memorable concerts I have ever heard. I can tell you he got a very loooong standing ovation which included the symphony members on stage. Julian was fabulous.
All this talk about maturity is rubbish. If Julian were to play behind a screen you wouldn't know his age, and I doubt that any remarks about such would surface. I would give my eye teeth to play right now, as well as Julian did when he was eleven. I suspect a lot of other clarinet-playing wannabees would, too.
If you want to compare his current playing to that of Sabine Meyer, check out their new recording of Krommer/ Spohr. The Krommer double concerto will give you a chance to hear the two of them at the same time. There are two Spohr concerti (one with Sabine and the other with Julian) that will give an idea of their contrasting styles.
IMO, there are four great recording soloists in the clarinet world today - Ricardo Morales, Jon Manasse, Julian Bliss, and Sabine Meyer (not necessarily in that order). To say that any one of them is a poor performer because of age is ridiculous. If age was a factor for performance, Tony Bennett wouldn't still be as popular today as when he was a young man. And I would have been banned from clarineting anywhere long ago. Fortunately I am still able to enjoy the rewards of musical performance in my daily life. I am thankful for the Julians and Tonys of the musical world (and everyone in between).
Nancy
Nancy Buckman
AACC Symphony Orchestra
Opera AACC
Early Music Society of Northern MD
(and a lot of other ensembles, too)
nebuckman@gmail.com
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Author: Ryan K
Date: 2008-02-08 00:31
Just curious, what kind of horn is he playing on. I've never seen anything like it. Unless its a Le Blanc and I've gone blind.
Ryan Karr
Dickinson College
Carlisle, PA
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Author: srattle
Date: 2008-02-08 07:08
Julian has a recording of French music from when he was 14, with pianist Julien Quentin. Try listening to this if you are skeptical. I was. Great recording, I think
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-02-08 07:50
"I would give my eye teeth to play right now, as well as Julian did when he was eleven. I suspect a lot of other clarinet-playing wannabees would, too."
I truely wish for every musician to find their way in music and not wish/hope/etc. they play like someone else. I am not talking about wishing to be a copy, but instead this entire state of mind such as one that would cause someone to write something like the above. IMO it is much better to be free from these type of thoughts and just appreciate all great players. It is of course very good to think and analyze the playing and music of anyone, which will help improve your own playing, but not with the problematic state of mind.... IMO.
"I remember distinctly the fellow performing after him saying, " And just how do I follow that"?"
Another example of the same thing. What a terrible way to start a concert, by degrating yourself. If that performer wanted to compliment, they could just say how they enjoyed the playing and that they thought it was great, or some other to positively compliment, which IMO would also be a lot more "real" and personal. Maybe some musicians don't consider all the subtle and not so subtle psychological musical and non musical things in music.
"IMO, there are four great recording soloists in the clarinet world today - Ricardo Morales, Jon Manasse, Julian Bliss, and Sabine Meyer (not necessarily in that order)."
Are you not familiar with the many other great clarinet soloists or is there another reason you think they are not "great"? I can think of many other great soloists that you don't include here, including classical players and also players who don't play only classical music. Are you dismissing all non-classical clarinet soloists or do you have another reason for not including any of them as "great" soloists?
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2008-02-08 13:16
"IMO, there are four great recording soloists in the clarinet world today - Ricardo Morales, Jon Manasse, Julian Bliss, and Sabine Meyer (not necessarily in that order)."
One of the most misinformed statements I have ever read on this board.
With out making a list of performers, how anyone can lump Bliss in the same category as Morales is beyond me. Furthermore, how someone does not mention Frost when discussing clarinet soloists is equally confusing.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-02-08 16:04
I don't think the comment was so bad. Obviously, this person has a certain tier of players that includes four current recording who are her favorites. My list is a little different, but what Nancy said is not exactly a radical statement.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-04-21 19:06
Yes,very admirable playing, but not above criticism.His high Cs not intune, but more during the first movement he is consistantly slightly ahead of the orchestra in the 16th passages, just slightly.The high d he uses with the trill key, he forgets to shade and it too is not pleasant. He also does not play each of the grace notes in the same manner, some from the note above and other on the note, the trills also are inconsistant in the same manner. He is 17 and been studying for a while now, but then again his teacher plays even faster in many passages than the prevailing orchestra tempi.
Yes, he is very gifted, but he may very well opt out of the business at some point, as have many gifted folk. Then again, he is no Menuhin.
There is however an important point to make. There is in the first violins a blond lady who seems to have a tattoo on her bow arm. Neat.
Post Edited (2008-04-21 19:13)
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-04-22 16:58
His high C's might be in tune...Youtube video audios are not dependable.
It's chancy to judge intonation from such mostly amateur videos.
However you did spot the hot fiddle player with the ink! Way to go Sherm!
Clarinet Redux
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-04-22 18:27
Regarding the trills, Julian plays them what I consider to be exactly right. Ordinary trils along the way he approaches the trill from the note, but he approaches cadential trills from the top. There's nothing wrong with that, whatsoever.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-04-22 20:07
Old Geezer, I watched the concert live on the BBC and I can say that the intonation in the high register was flat (the c's mainly) but that didn't bother me so much, what did was the rushing in a lot of the semi's, this is not how Mozart in my opinion should be played, you really lose the sense of character. Perhaps that's his interpretation right now and it may well change when he grows with the concerto.
Peter Cigleris
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