 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinets1
Date: 2007-10-29 16:23
hi all.
i am working on "Immer Kleiner", and at the end of the piece i am instructed to crow on the mouthpiece at a specific pitch. checking it to a tuner i am nearly a half-step flat. any tips on getting the pitch up? (besides biting like crazy)
incidently, i have no abnormal pitch issues when the rest of the instrument is attached to the mouthpiece.
differential diagnosis, people. GO!!
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Author: redwine
Date: 2007-10-29 16:40
Hello,
I've played that piece many times and I believe the key for the band was improperly written. You aren't doing anything wrong. Maybe the person it was written for originally produced that pitch on their mouthpiece, but I also get a half-step below the accompaniment. I've often thought of rewriting it, but never have. To make it simple, I just underblow the pitch so that I actually get the flat 7 and play it loudly so everyone knows that's what I'm going for. It works. It's a fun piece. Good luck.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2007-10-29 17:20
Switch to shorter mouthpiece just for that pitch? Is a switch possible?
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-10-29 23:11
I have seen this performed and the player had a 2nd mouthpiece on the the stand to save time in the end. If you did this then you could use a shorter mouthpiece.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-10-29 23:18
Would covering half the tenon opening make any differencing (bring pitch up maybe? Don't know, haven't tried it . . . but maybe the smaller exit opening would bring the pitch up?)
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2007-10-29 23:25
Makes some kind of sence since the title translated is "Ever smaller"
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-10-30 00:14
Hey Clarinet1 and Ben,
Ok, this is JUST what I've been talking about with the modern tendency toward the "lower pitch" mouthpieces.
Use your Buffet stock mouthpiece to do the piece. You'll find that the VERY small unit of air volume contained in the small tone chamber more than sufficient to get where you need to go. They are actually also pretty darn good mouthpieces.
I had first encountered this lower pitch with the Genusa. This was the first mouthpiece to pioneer such a low sound in a world (at the time) filled with Wells, Portnoy and Woodwind mouthpieces of a higher pitch standard. Now I have been told that Kasper was a lower pitch mouthpiece but the ones that I played back in the '70s clearly were NOT.
I vent because we are not just having to re-write Immer Kleiner, but we are also re-writing the effect of the twelfths for those of us who may not want it re-written.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2007-10-30 02:16
Hi Paul....
Paul said:
"Now I have been told that Kasper was a lower pitch mouthpiece but the ones that I played back in the '70s clearly were NOT."
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My experience has been that there was a big difference between the Chicago (1940's - 1962) and Cicero (1962 - approx. 1972).
The Chicago was indeed lower overall as the chamber had a deeper "swoop" to the baffle. The better ones were also, generally speaking, slightly longer mouthpieces than the Ciceros.
The Cicero (mostly still supplied to Kaspar personally by Chedeville until they were bought out by Glotin in approx. 1968) was of a deliberately different design with a shallower baffle especially as it entered the bore.
Also, the Cicero's tended to be shorter and therefore sharper overall. Many times the taper of the bore was different in the Chicago than the Cicero. It would have to have been in order to work symbiotically with the two differing styled chambers.
One usually had to play a Moennig 67mm - 68mm to get the Cicero's down to pitch whereas the better playing Chicago's required a 66mm - 67mm length.
Fortunately there were some fine examples of each style that pretty much played very well in tune - even more-so with the help of an inverse taper bored barrel. (These are what I use as my comparators when making my own).
There weren't too many inverse taper barrels around back then except for some rare Kaspars, Hans Moennig of Philadelphia (who made them from scratch on his old belt-driven lathe), and a real pioneer in downstate Illinois, Lee Springer.
Gregory Smith
http://www.gregory-smith.com
BTW. The original Gigliotti (70's?) was one of the first mass produced lower pitched mouthpieces having a very deep swoop to the baffle and a larger tone chamber. Had you tried the originals?
Post Edited (2007-10-30 02:19)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2007-10-31 03:29
addendum to my suggestion.....get a junk mouthpiece and start sawing off 2mm at a time until you get what you need.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: clarinets1
Date: 2007-11-01 17:34
hmmm. i've never had the opportunity to maul clarinet parts before...i have several otherwise useless mouthpieces lying around.
i'll do some experimentation.
i like that idea of having a second mouthpiece ready for the end.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-11-04 11:14
If anybody's near Adamstown, PA, the flea markets and flea market stores around there have dealers who sellold, used instrument parts, including junk mouthpieces, usually higgledy-piggledy in a cardboard box mixed in with sax and trumpet mouthpieces, loose keys, lyres, etc.. The Renninger's Extravaganza several times a year and the Black Angus outdoors are good places to look. I always root around through the boxes just to see if anything good got dumped in there by mistake--no luck so far. Going rate is $5 to $8 per, and most of 'em aren't worth that, frankly (chips, splits, etc.--things the schools and repair people got rid of in job lots at auctions), but I'll bet you could find something worthy of experimentation with the bench grinder to get the pitch for that one note.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: clarinets1
Date: 2007-11-05 19:16
update:
as i don't have access to a bench grinder, nor am i sure of how to go about mauling clarinet pieces, i went through my box o' random parts and found a cheap stock mpce that produced the desired pitch.
also, in reference to Immer Kleiner, it is remarkable how different the clarinet sounds without the bell. it also makes me work harder as the lower notes are unstable. playing with the just the upper joint is fun at first, but also quickly turns into hard work! my high E is really badly out of pitch! i did however learn several different ways to play the C# without the right hand.
JK
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2007-11-05 23:19
If your E is flat, try adding the G#/Ab throat key (if you haven't already).
Best regards,
jnk
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