 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-10-28 13:01
Is the originally issued barrel with the Buffet Greenline clarinet also made of "greenline" material or is it solid grenadilla wood?
...GBK
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-10-28 13:38
All the ones I have used certainly seem to be the identical "press board material." I was a bit miffed when told I could NOT buy a replacement Greenline barrel of a different size...........another reason I have left the Buffet Co. family of products.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-10-28 15:22
Greenlines have Greenline barrels as standard.
It would defeat the object if they were supplied with wooden barrels considering the reason why the rest of the clarinet is made of Greenline composite.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-10-28 15:39
Paul,
You can't buy Greenline barrels seperately!? And they only have one length? Really?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-10-28 16:30
Paul wrote:
> I was a bit miffed when told I could NOT buy a
> replacement Greenline barrel of a different
> size...........another reason I have left the Buffet Co.
> family of products.
That was the basis behind my original question.
My student has an R13 Greenline Bb clarinet and was looking for a 67mm Greenline barrel.
Replacement grenadilla barrels (stock, Moennig and Chadash) can be found in varying lengths, but it seems that after market Buffet Greenline barrels (ex: 67mm) either do not seem to exist, or now are VERY difficult to obtain...GBK
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2007-10-28 20:53
Paul,
I have greenline R-13, I bought it almost 10 years ago. about a year later I orderd 2 barrels, 65 and 67 , and had no problem to get it.
The original barrels are greenline , of course.
Sarah
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-10-28 21:09
How come it's so difficult getting parts for Buffets in the US when they're the most popular make over there (and probably where the largest percentage of Buffet clarinets all end up)?
Only last week at work I saw a whole bagfull of Buffet nylon pins (which now have a 1.8mm shank instead of 1.6mm, so the LH levers will need drilling out to fit the current ones), and in another shop I saw a whole load of adjustable thumbrest parts.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-10-28 21:50
Looks like the hired a logistics manager from one the former communist countries... <eg>
--
Ben
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Author: Michael E. Shultz
Date: 2007-10-29 00:30
My Bb R13 Buffet Greenline Festival has two Greenline barrels: a 65 mm and a 66 mm as standard equipment.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-10-29 10:56
GBK,
Instead of a new (and longer) barrel, what about using tuning rings?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-10-29 16:27)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-10-29 15:03
Tuning rings. An interesting suggestion but obviously the tenon is not as engaged in that scenario. Also, my issue was that I needed a SHORTER barrel for some mouthpieces which are being designed to lower the overall pitch using a much larger volume in the tone chamber (NOT the bore). The fix I settled on in the interim before the Yamaha light at the end of the tunnel was a Power Barrel. This barrel is really a very well designed combination of metal and resin that even helped calm down the problem with Buffet's twelves.
Really the solution was to go to a company that makes a decent horn these days. Time to move on.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2007-10-29 20:11
My Prestige Eb (greenline) came with a greenline barrel and a regular barrel.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-10-30 18:31
How does one differentiate between a Greenline barrel and a wood Buffet barrel?
Bob Draznik
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2007-10-30 18:45
They look very different. The regular barrel has wood grain and variations. The greenline does not.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2007-10-30 19:56
Would Delrin (I believe that's the material) barrel, similar to what Bob Scott makes work in this situation? Aren't the Muncy barrels about the same?
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Author: hpadi
Date: 2007-10-31 00:50
I was thinking about buying an R13 Now GBK brings this topic and I wonder, Should I really buy it? Also Paul comments... Should I buy one here in the USA or buy it in Europe? Grenadilla now Greenline. Then the 63/65/67... What's with all of this? :-(
Post Edited (2007-10-31 00:51)
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Author: pplateau
Date: 2007-10-31 02:37
I've had a Greenline R13 for about 6 years. It works great, intonation good etc. In fact a Chadash barrel I tried on it didn't improve it at all, the original barrel is of the same material : ground up grenadilla and epoxy of some sort according to Buffet. Bottom line: it works great and you don't sweat cracking. I have no reservations about the instrument; although I know some have subsituted a regular wood barrel. Mine doesn't need one.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-11-01 00:33
"How does one differentiate between a Greenline barrel and a wood Buffet barrel?"
A Greenline barrel has a green spot on it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: hpadi
Date: 2007-11-01 03:51
Ok, but why they do the greenline vs. the wood and what is the catch. What is the give and take? Please beside the market stand point. Is there a better brand?
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Author: kilo
Date: 2007-11-01 09:00
<Is there a better brand?>
They offer GreenLine as a choice for people who wish for or need a clarinet which is more durable than traditional wood clarinets. If you search the site you can find many discussions, lots of pros and cons, as you might guess. But as far as "brand" goes, R13's are well-regarded — as are many other professional clarinets. If the keywork is satisfactory, I'd think more in terms of individual clarinets rather than maker.
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Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2007-11-01 10:43
i had a r13 greenline a couple of years ago. it sounded and tuned ok. but the resonance was not very good and i had some problems to play it. it just didn't sing!
but i guess its just about the same difference between greenline clarinets as regular ones. (could have beed the r13. i just dont like the ones that i have tried either...)
there's allways the Tom Ridenour Lyrique! :D
i'm waiting for my new A clarinet...
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2007-11-01 12:11
Some clarifications,
The Greenline is a strategy to overcome the impending extinction of the tree from which we derive African Blackwood. It's coming..............soon.
So, there will have to be alterntes found for instrument bodies.
Let me back off my anti-Buffet prejudice for just a moment. Buffet actually did come up with a viable solution in that they use blackwood "sawdust" and epoxy to approximate a real tree. If you like Buffet, the Greenline is actually a VERY good substitute. Side by side with a standard R13 they sound almost identical though there may be a slight diminishing of overtones.
There is also the resistance to water and cold (more so than pure wood).
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2007-11-01 13:00
yes. its a great inovation. and i am certainly looking forward to the day when there is no difference in any way. (or it may even get better than the grenadilla:-)
the psycological side of this, is that the Buffet company claims that they are just as good as the regular wooden clarinets.
and that makes one kind of dissapointed when its not true!!!
but i guess it would be stupid to try to sell it by saying: well its not as good yet, but costs just as much. buy it anyway! :P
there has to be another mixture of wood/glue that doesn't take away the resonance?!?!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-11-01 13:35
pelo_ensortijado wrote:
> the psycological side of this, is that the Buffet company
> claims that they are just as good as the regular wooden
> clarinets.
> and that makes one kind of dissapointed when its not true!!!
Depends on who you ask, doesn't it? There are some players - well known, professional players - who like it just fine and consider it better than the "regular" Buffets, thank you very much.
So, of course, their current claim is true. They're "just as good", not they're "exactly the same".
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2007-11-01 14:02
I have been playing a greenline since 1995. I never had to maintain the bore or worry about cracks. Playing the greenline, I have been told that I played out of rhythm, out of tune, out of expression, or simply out of it; but I was never told my instrument did not sound like a wooden clarinet. In fact the most recurrent compliment I have had has been the quality of my tone...
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: hpadi
Date: 2007-11-01 14:50
It was my impression that when you build an instrument the instruments has inimitable characteristics that make it exactly what it is. Whether is a clarinet, trombone, violin etc.
These characteristics are so distinctive to that instrument that composers write specific parts in a score for them. This way we can hear them and enjoy their uniqueness.
It is not about some one particular liking or preference on how the instrument should sound like, all clarinet of it’s own class should sound the same, have the same pitch or resonance or whatever you call it.
To make my point clearer, a chromatic tuner tunes the A note at 440hz not at 120 or 340 or any other HZ otherwise it wouldn’t be call the A note. Having say that. People that are serious about playing a particular instrument should have the correct knowledge to what that instrument should sound like regardless of personal preferences.
I say shame on all those companies that in order to make a living they do not care to preserve the true characteristics of the instruments they are marketing.
Shame on those that have the knowledge to make the difference and neglect their duty to the art of music by not demanding from those companies better instruments that hold the true nature and intrinsic characteristics of that instrument.
How as a new student, one can truly learn what the clarinet or any other instrument for that matter should sound like. Talking about the clarinet, we not only has to deal with the brand and model but also you need to thing about the reed and the ligature, the mouthpiece, the horn or the barrel.
Anyway, just a thought!
Henry Padilla
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-11-01 15:13
hpadi wrote:
> I say shame on all those companies that in order to make a
> living they do not care to preserve the true characteristics of
> the instruments they are marketing.
Then, of course, I would have to say "shame on you" for playing a modern clarinet of any ilk, especially one with a modern key system made of grenadilla tuned at A=440 ... it's far from being a "true clarinet" using your definition.
And now, back to whether or not the barrel of greenline clarinet is made of the Greenline material.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-11-01 15:17
Which it is.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: hpadi
Date: 2007-11-01 15:51
Mark, I am not playing such instrument you are describing. The chromatic tuner is just an example or illustrative way to bring up my point of view. What I am trying to say is that instruments should keep their unique characteristics regardless of musician’s personal preferences and that companies should guard those unique characteristics at all cost for the sake of music. If the true clarinet harmonics or sounds come from grenadilla better than from any other material then they should not be making it from any other component unless they truly can duplicate it to the dot.
After all, they are very expensive. I believe it can be done and is very feasible. We have the technology and if not then plant more grenadilla trees. One way or another they will be expensive, so why not get the real deal.
Thanks,
Henry Padilla
Post Edited (2007-11-01 15:52)
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Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2007-11-01 15:58
most certainy!
since the barrel is the thing that most often cracks (atleast for me) it would be kind of stupid to Not make it uncrackable!
mark: sorry for what i said about the greenline. they are kind of mocked here in sweden(amongst the people i know. students/teachers.) so i didn't understand i was stepping on somebodys toes. sorry!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-11-01 16:04
hpadi wrote;
> What I am trying to say is that instruments should keep
> their unique characteristics regardless of musician’s
> personal preferences and that companies should guard
> those unique characteristics at all cost for the sake of music.
Early clarinets were made of boxwood and played with a wooden mouthpiece.
Try using that set up in today's modern orchestra and you won't be heard past the first row of seats... GBK
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-11-01 16:05
pelo_ensortijado wrote:
> mark: sorry for what i said about the greenline. they are kind
> of mocked here in sweden(amongst the people i know.
> students/teachers.) so i didn't understand i was stepping on
> somebodys toes. sorry!
You're not stepping on MY toes - I'm just telling the facts. It's often the ignorant that mock things they don't understand.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-11-01 16:08
hpadi wrote:
> If the true clarinet harmonics or sounds come from
> grenadilla better than from any other material then they should
> not be making it from any other component unless they truly can
> duplicate it to the dot.
"If"??? "If not"??? What do you mean? Is grenadilla the one, true, material that produces whatever your one, true, clarinet sound must be? Then for you, play grenadilla. Don't pontificate.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2007-11-01 16:10
Ok back to topic.
I bought my buffet in France in 1995, it came with a 65mm barrel in greenline material. I subsequently got a 66mm barrel about 6months later from my dealer and it was made of the greenline material. I did not know it was impossible to get a separate greenline barrel these days. Anybody tried contacting Buffet?
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: hpadi
Date: 2007-11-01 16:14
Mark, what is your problem? No need to be offensive. Your tone is not of a gentleman. I am not pontificating anything.
I personally can care less about what material a clarinet is made of. What I am saying is make them sound the same. It should not be about personal preferences. Got it!
Post Edited (2007-11-01 16:18)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-11-01 16:22
hpadi wrote:
> I personally can care less about what material a clarinet is
> made of. What I am saying is make them sound the same.
The same as WHAT??? You said earlier they should sound like "the grenadilla" ones. But you don't care what they're made of.
That's a logical argument?
There is no "reference standard" clarinet that all clarinets should "sound like" (never mind played by who with what mouthpiece/reed/weather/whatever). Thank goodness.
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