 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: haptown
Date: 2007-10-25 00:42
I'm going to look at a 1948 Selmer Paris Bb clarinet this week - according to the description it "sounds beautiful", and the "corks and pads appear in good condition".
My hope is that it will be trouble free but other than cracks in the wood what defects should I be looking for?
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2007-10-25 00:53
I always check the feel or ergonomics of the keyworks. Could be a great player but if the keyworks aren't solid, as in easy to reach and play, I'd walk. I'm not sure if that will be an issue with this horn, but it has been an issue for several of my purchases.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-10-25 03:51
Over time, the bore of an older clarinet MAY change, causing wide tuning gaps in octaves and 12ths.
Older barrels may also need replacing to help with resistance, and tuning issues.
Don't forget to check the height/clearance of pads. Keys which do not open enough, or improper (too thick) pads will cause stuffy sounding, fuzzy notes ...GBK
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Author: Selmer'53
Date: 2007-10-25 04:57
Hello, haptown-
If the description says "corks & pads appear in good condition", then whomever is selling (?) it may not know much about the clarinet. Corks & pads are either in good condition or not.
When I bought my '53 Selmer Paris, it was from a shop that did overhauls & repairs and sold all kinds of brass & woodwinds. Lots of pictures on the walls, everyone very personable, wheelin'-n-dealin', etc. They gave me a good price (?) on the horn, then "overhauled" it for me (for another price). Everyone was happy.
About 5 months later, I went to see a brilliant clarinet maker (whose products, by the way, are sold all over the world...some even distributed by Buffet) about the possibility of him customizing a new one for me. He convinced me that I didn't need a new one (think about it, he could've easily made over 4grand from me, and I was champing at the bit!) because my Selmer was a very fine instrument, had hardly been used considering how old it is, BUT...
The key work was awfull! Clickety-clacks from all over, horrible air leakage, (cheap) pads not sitting right over the tone holes (remember, these were all replaced in the "overhaul") and to top it all off, there were major cracks not discernable by me that had been correctly fixed years ago, probably a loooong time before my pals at the shop got their hands on it. For a few hundred dollars, he'd be happy to give it a proper overhaul. He sat me through everything he was going to do to it, patiently describing what was done wrong and how he would correct it. It was quite a lesson for me.
When I picked it up a few days later (as opposed to the MONTH it tooks those other guys to do a lousy job!), the feel and sound were miraculous. I couldn't believe I was playing the same instrument I'd brought in a few days prior.
Still in the mood to throw more money away, I tried to convince him (and myself) that I would definately need a new barrel & bell, since the bell had once had a tremendous crack that had been fixed years before, and the barrel wasn't original to the model anyway (series 9 on a P series).
Well, he adamantly refused to sell me his hand-crafted barrel or bell. Just wouldn't do it. Why? Because I DID NOT NEED IT. He promised that he would be the first to tell me if replacements were necessary. "But what about that cracked bell?" "Absolutely fine, don't waste your money!"
I suppose this is going a long way to simply suggest that even in a situation where you think everything is on the up n' up and being dealt with proffessionally, there is the possibility that what you walk away with may not be all that you think it is.
I tried about a dozen clarinets before picking my Selmer. Why that one if it was so discombobulated at the time? Because it came closest to the sound I was looking for, which is a Big Band Era sound. But I sure as hell didn't realize just how great it could actually be!
My instincts were spot on.
My informed mind was shakey at best.
Go with your gut, then bring it to a well researched craftsman who eats, drinks, and sleeps the clarinet for an overhaul that it will inevitably need.
Take your time & pick the right person.
If you can't afford the right person, ask who he or she might recommend.
And please, sit with whoever the overhauler may be, and have them go step by step through the process of what will be done...in detail. If they seem to be blowing you off, if they don't seem right, don't do it with that person. You'll spend a bunch of money only to have to spend it again a few months later.
Hope this was helpfull.
Good luck!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-10-25 08:35
>> do older clarinets have tuning issues? <<
Hmm... can someone remind me again what year was it when intonation problems started...?
Like any clarinet this old Selmer might have intonation problems or not, you will have to check. For the general condition maybe you can show it to a good repairer before you buy?
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2007-10-25 11:48
Another thing to look for in wood clarinets is chipped tone holes. If you find a bad one, there are almost always more. Old pads can mask this problem and the instrument will play reasonably well anyway. The bad tone holes will have to be fixed at overhaul and that’s not easy.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-10-25 13:24
Make sure the barrel hasn't been shortened beyond what is acceptable (or crudely shortened while the rings were still in place!).
For these old Selmers, ideally you need the original barrel length of 67mm (which is what was supplied with them), with 66mm being the absolute minimum without causing drastic intonation problems.
But on older Selmers the lower register is slightly sharp in comparison to the upper register, so use resonance or corrective fingerings in the lower register as part of your playing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-10-25 15:30
There are some artist quality instruments in all makes and models of top price clarinets , both old and new. For an old one , before buying, try it, have a competent technician check it out, etc. Based on lots of such buying/trying over seventy years, I would recommend also trying a new instrument, such as the Forte , which has a generous trial policy and is good value. .
richard smith
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-10-25 16:48
NEVER buy a used clarinet you haven't played, especially from an auction site, without a guarantee IN WRITING that you may return it for any reason, or for no reason.
With older instruments, look at the bore in the barrel and especially in the upper joint above the register vent. If it's dull, that means it's been re-bored, which is a sure sign of trouble. It means, at the least, that there's been problems serious enough to risk a major adjustment.
Like Selmer53, I'm suspicious where the description is that things "appear" to be in good condition. Nice appearing pads can leak like a sieve, which means several hundred dollars in repair, and "appear" also means the seller doesn't really know anything, and isn't promising anything.
Be super picky about intonation and, if the bore has been altered, about response and the ability to bind together large intervals.
Ken Shaw
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Author: haptown
Date: 2007-10-25 20:54
Thanks for the very helpful advice everyone - I'm glad I asked first. Based on everything I've read here I think I'm going to pass on this clarinet. I will not be able to get it to a repair person before purchasing and I recently discovered that the woman who is selling it is getting ready to move out of state.
Currently I am playing a U.S. Selmer Signet which is on loan from a friend and I'm really ready to get my own (and he's ready to get his back). Actually this is the second one he's loaned me, the first one was a plastic clarinet which I didn't really care for much. Now I've got the itch to acquire my own clarinet and I'm afraid that I was just too anxious to grab the first shiny thing I saw on craigslist.
Thanks again,
Andy Hudson
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