 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tony H
Date: 2007-10-11 20:36
Hi,
I wonder if there is anyone that can help me identify the clarinet that I have recently acquired from a Military band collection.
I play a number of instruments but the clarinet is not one of them.
It has the Buffet Crampon logo on the mouthpiece but is not found elsewhere on the instrument.
Half way down the barrel on the rear is a serial number,236479
It seems to be made from some sort of ABS material.
It has seventeen keys and six rings.
I would be greatfull for any info
Tony
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2007-10-11 21:03
Hi,
The MP and barrel are considered as 'accessories'. The important markings will be on the upper and lower joint of the clarinet.
Is there nothing at all on the instrument?
Steve
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Author: Tony H
Date: 2007-10-11 21:29
Steve,
Just the serial number which is on the back of the lower joint.
Tony
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Author: Iacuras
Date: 2007-10-11 22:18
It is an R13 manufactured on 02/10/83.
Steve
"If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon."
"If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly."
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Author: kuteclar
Date: 2007-10-12 04:16
Is that serial number from JUST on the barrel or was it found elsewhere on either larger/keyed sections of instrument?
Steve is right - mouthpiece and barrels are usually not what comes with the instrument, nor the brand of the rest of the instrument. They are personalized by the player. You should be able to find some sort of serial number or inscription on the main sections of instrument - and hopefully they should match each other.
If this serial # is 236479, then yes, you have a Bb R13, 1983.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-10-12 10:28
Hello Tony,
There are no R-13's that would seem to be made out of ABS material. Before someone says "Greenline" that would be clearly marked as well as the Buffet logo.
Not that my experience is THAT extensive, but I've never seen a Buffet horn that didn't "bear the marks".
If it is an R-13 it would have the tell tale "cut-outs" in the wood beneath the right hand pinky mechanism on the lower joint. Does it have these?
As well, Tony, are the logo's non-existent or simply worn off the instrument?
Before you trust Buffet's serial number website: you could type in any 5 or 6 digit number from any object and it would tell you when it was made, regardless of whether the number was from a clarinet or not.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Dee
Date: 2007-10-13 22:26
Since it has NO logo on it, the instrument would not be a Buffet of any kind. Therefore the serial number is not useful in determining when this instrument was made or even who made it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-10-14 10:06
Tony, could you post some detailed photos of this clarinet on here?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DrH2O
Date: 2007-10-14 11:37
Newer Buffet B12s do not have the logo stamped on them - it is only "inked" onto the upper joint and bell. After less than a year, the logo on my upper joint has completely disappeared and the logo on the bell is only a faint illegible shadow. It does however have "made in Germany" stamped on the back of the lower joint along with the serial number (which is on the upper joint as well).
Anne
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2007-10-14 11:43
A related question
If a (wooden) clarinet does have the Buffet logo, but no other model markings than the serial number - and you put the serial number into the Buffet websit instrument search and it comes up with the R13 code. Then how sure can you be that it is an R13.
An E11 is wooden, but as a student model, will not appear in the instrument search. Might thay have the same serial numbers?
Chris
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-10-14 12:13
Chris:
R 13's have serial numbers on both upper and lower joints. They also have the "cut-outs" under the right pinky mechanism (excavated wood for key placement). The Buffet logo is engraved. The barrel (if stock) is 66mm.
E 11's usually have E11 painted on the instrument. The logo's are painted, and where it was made is on the instrument as well. They do not (ever?)have the right hand pinky "cut-outs". Barrel (if stock) is 64.5mm.
I don't have my E 11 nearby, but I also thought the serial numbers were different.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: susieray
Date: 2007-10-14 16:00
Not only are the serial numbers on some E11s and R13s the same, but some of the serial numbers on other brands are the same too, you can't identify a clarinet by it's serial number alone. Just for fun I entered the serial number of an old Selmer Signet and what do you know? It's an R13 made in 1974. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
In order to use the Buffet serial number search you must know what instrument you have first. If it's a professional Buffet THEN you can look up the year of manufacturing. I have seen Buffet B12's on the auction site being sold as R13's because Buffet serial number search told them it was an R13. Jeeeeezzzzzz.
There are lots of clarinets out there with the same number on them. It's not like cars or guns where there number is unique to that item.
Post Edited (2007-10-14 20:07)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-10-14 16:09
B12 and E11 clarinets in the EU don't have 'Made in Germany' stamped on them. The Evettes used to say 'Made in W. Germany' on the back, but when they became the B12 and E11 that disappeared.
The B&H 'Regent II' was a plastic Evette which later became the B12, and had a printed on logo which could wear out easily. When the B12 first came on the market the logo was stamped into the barrel, top joint and bell so remained legible even if the gold faded. Only more recently (within the last ten years) the logo was printed on.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2007-10-14 20:56
susieray
"I have seen Buffet B12's on the auction site being sold as R13's because Buffet serial number search told them it was an R13"
That was just the sort of thing I was looking at. I had come across an Ebay auction for a Buffet Bb clarinet with no close up photo and no detail description or model number offered. The serial number was given.
The serial number in Buffet website gave a return of an R13 made in 1997 so I posted my question above.
I also emailed for more details and the seller said it was not wooden and that it was a B12. There was no attempt at deception or accidental misrepresentation, just not much info in the auction.
Further illustrates exactly what you said.
Chris
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Author: Tony H
Date: 2007-10-21 16:26
Chris P,
I think you have hit the nail right on the head. The Buffet is identical to a B&H I have just acquired. The logo is printed on the B&H very clearly. I guess they were made in the same factory at the time Buffet took over B&H.
Many thanks for you help
Tony H
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Author: VentiViet
Date: 2007-10-26 15:50
Hey Tony,
I have a Buffet B12 Student Model Clarinet which I purchased Brand New on the 23rd of October 2007. I did extensive research before purchasing this clarinet. I do know ALL Buffet B12s are Student Models and are made of only ABS material(plastic) . Most clarinets played in marching bands are going to be made of plastic materials instead of real wood due to playing in adverse conditions like rain,snow,humidty etc... The reason why is wood cracks under those conditions if not taken care of properly unlike plastic which NEVER cracks but can break. Another reason is cost. The B 12 I bought was around $500 USD.The E 11s are priced $1000 USD and up. The R 13s are priced $2500 USD and up.The Tosca line are priced starting at around $5300 USD.
Your Buffet should have 5 pieces. Starting with the mouthpiece,then barrel,the upper joint,the lower joint and lastly the bell.
-The mouthpiece should have a Buffet Crampon Logo stamped/inked on it.It The logo is about half an inch in size.
-The Barrel also has this logo(stamped/inked) but it's bigger ,about an inch in size.
=The Upper Joint(the piece that doesn't have the thumb rest) has the logo on it(stamped/inked),about an inch in size but also has the model number "B 12" right below the logo.This piece does have an engraved six digit serical number on the lower back.
-The Lower Joint(the piece that has the thumb rest) DOES NOT have a logo however it does have a six digit serial number engraved right above the thumb rest. It also has engraved below the serial number "Made In Germany".
- A NOT ABOUT THE SERIAL NUMBER!: If you go to the Buffet Crampon Website and try to enter a "B 12" serial number it WILL NOT BE RIGHT!!! The search is only for "Professional" models,the "R 13" line.
-Real Wood(Grenadilla) Buffet Clarinets are made in France.
-There is something called a "Greenline" clarinet made exclusively from Buffet Crampon. A quote from Buffet Crampon: "To answer the problem of dwindling grenadilla stocks as well as the problem of instability with wood clarinets. Buffet-Crampon has developed this blend of grendaldilla dust and epoxy.These Clarinets offer the density and tone of a grenadilla clarinet but the stability of synthetic."
-There are NO R 13s that are plastic! However there are greenline models I read one of the replies at the beginning and was shocked to see that. RESEARCH people!.
In conclusion I am not 100% sure if its a Buffet-Crampon clarinet since the only logo you found on it was on the mouthpiece. People sometimes "upgrade" parts on a clarinet for better performance and those parts are usually the mouthpiece,barrel and/or bell. So its easy for scammers to sell a lesser quality clarinet fooling customers into thinking theyre getting a name brand high quality product when infact they just switched out pieces. The logos on the other parts could have been rubbed off too over time and with use since they're stamped/inked onto the clarinet. Maybe you could take it to a local music shop and they could gladly tell you for sure.
If you need anything else you may contact me at the following email address: shaweagles@hotmail.com
I hope this information helps you =).
VentiViet
Post Edited (2007-10-26 16:05)
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-10-26 16:17
I ask myself reading the BBoard. Are E-13 clarinets very unfamilar in USA ? My opinion is that the extra money over a E-11 is so much worth it because the have inproved through the years and feel very close to R-13 as to keywork and resistance.
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