 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kruzi
Date: 2007-07-19 19:32
Hello!
Last week I had the incredible luck to get a beautiful old Oehler system clarinet in Bb from an older Orchestra player who has now retired. He had the thing built for himself in 1958 and played it since then as his main instrument and it is still in a remarkably good shape for such an old horn.
The only bad thing about it is - it`s a smoker`s instrument and smells just
like a fat cigar. And the inner bore and tonehole chimneys are covered with a thin film of brown nicotine residue that has been building up in there within the years. It hasn`t afflicted the intonation or playability yet me thinks, but I`d like to put this Oehler in use as my main horn too, but also besides the smoke-filled pubs and jazz-cellars where nobody notices the incredible tobacco smell it has.
I don`t dare to bring this thing along when practicing chamber music with my colleagues yet - they are non-smokers and the tobacco smell would just make them feel sick. We`d probably have to rename our style into sick chamber music and equip our audience with sickness bags before shows then;-)
I have tried to remove the nicotine residue with Q-tips and some Selmer bore oil already but without success. Lighter fluid works a bit better but I`m not sure if this kind of degreaser doesn`t harm the wood of the clarinet.
Does anyone of you know if there`s a safe method to put this smoked instrument back to normal without damaging it? Any comments are welcome!
Greetings,
Kruzi
Take what you`ve got and make the best of it!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-07-19 20:39
Use a bottle brush (there are sizes that are hardly bigger than the inside bore, used for eg test tubes. Mine has a diameter of 15mm). Soak the brush in warm water, add a drop of liquid hand soap, brush the bore 5-10 times up and down, rinse, swab. Clean the tone holes with a wet q-tip. Repeat as necessary. Dry, oil.
You will have to remove the keys, however.
If unsure, try with a plastic clunker first. I always clean my restoration projects like this, with no ill side-effects so far <touches wood>.
--
Ben
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-07-19 20:48
second on the bottle brush. scrapes everything in the inside with soft plastic needles
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-07-19 20:49
The best thing is to completely strip it down into as many parts as is possible so you're only left with the keys, screws, springs and body joints all in bits as the pads and corks will retain a lot of the smoke smell and should all be replaced.
You may want to either have the case steam cleaned or treated to get rid of the smell as the fabric of the case will also retain smells. If using a water based cleaner/deodouriser then leave the case plenty of time to dry out thoroughly before using it.
You can use methylated spirits (denatured alcohol) to remove the tar from the toneholes with a cotton bud and on a rag down the bore as well as the sockets, but it will soften and dissolve shellac (though chances are you'll have the thumb tube and speaker bush removed during it being overhaulled). After the meths vapours have dissipated, oil the bore and sockets.
I'm sure there are several of The Doctor's products that will do the job, and one for each application of the cleaning and restoration process of the clarinet and it's case.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-07-19 20:55
On the nylon brush thing, I once had an old alto sax belonging to an elderly gentleman come in for repair with a simple-system clarinet clipped into the sax case lid. The bore was completely encrusted with what looked like black sugar. I used a trumpet valve case brush to shift the lot while still dry, and with time and patience the bore was soon visible.
It made me wonder just how long it took to accumulate the crusty deposits in the bore, and how the clarinet was even playable in it's condition.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-07-19 21:05
(Disclaimer - I make cleaning products)
The residue from smoke is difficult to remove because of the tar content and other smoke residues which will form a hardened film and an organic grease solvent will probably be needed. Some of the new cleaning agents containing limolene from citrus are very good degreasers and also a little more gentle on the wood and the cleaning person than volatile organic solvents. Work in any case should be in a well ventillated area. Automotive shops sell these citrus based degreasers. The bottle brushes are a super idea from the technical staff of the BB. The case will also need to be cleaned as mentioned.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-07-19 21:37
Chris P -
Methylated spirits? Do you mean methyl alcohol (a/k/a wood alcohol)? That's nasty stuff. Even breathing the fumes can cause permanent brain damage. Alcoholics who try methyl alcohol stagger drunkenly for the rest of their lives.
The alcohol in liquor is ethyl alcohol. It used to be sold in "denatured" form, with ipecac or some other nauseating ingredient added to keep people from drinking it without paying liquor taxes. It's rare these days. If you go into a drug store and ask for alcohol (or rubbing alcohol or denatured alcohol), you'll get isopropyl alcohol.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-07-19 21:53
I think it's called 'rubbing alcohol' on your side of the Atlantic. It's certainly not highly toxic or it wouldn't be available off the shelf in DIY shops (although you can't buy acetone or hydrogen peroxide in UK chemists anymore!)
What we refer to as 'meths' is the purple dyed alcohol you can fuel a small steam engine with, and what tramps allegedly drink out of a bottle in a brown paper bag. I use it all the time to clean toneholes and tonehole chimneys, as well as to degrease keys and tenon slots prior to applying Evo-Stik (which glue sniffers use) or any application prior to using superglue (and leaving plenty of time for evaporation first) - maybe my brain has already been damaged by the various vapours and I haven't realised, probably the reason behind my madness!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-07-19 22:32
i had a clarinet with exactly this issue a few months ago.
i removed all the keys, and washed the wood with murphy's oil soap, both inside and out. rinsed in room temp water. dried. then oiled using the doctor's bore oil.
i threw the case out and got a new one.
cleaned the screws and hinge tubes, and lightly oiled with the doctor's key oil (the aerospace grade stuff). put a light film of oil on the springs using a qtip.
problem solved. the horn (1976 R13) plays beautifuly, and the smoke smell is gone.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: FDF
Date: 2007-07-19 22:42
Leave it as it is, why fool with a good thing. Nobody is going to get second hand smoke from an old clarinet. If it's good, why fix it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-07-19 23:06
"Leave it as it is, why fool with a good thing. Nobody is going to get second hand smoke from an old clarinet. If it's good, why fix it."
Why put up with something you don't like? Would you drive around in a car that was used by the last owner as a chicken shed without cleaning it all out first?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: FDF
Date: 2007-07-19 23:18
"Why put up with something you don't like? Would you drive around in a car that wa"s used by the last owner as a chicken shed without cleaning it all out first?"
Well, actually, I woudn't have bought it in the first place. This clarinet was purchased out of admiration.
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Author: Kruzi
Date: 2007-07-19 23:46
Thanks for your answers so far:-)
Tomorrow I`m going to get me a bottle brush with goathair bristles which is normally used to clean the inner bore of soprano recorders and a packet of
these tiny cotton/plasticbristle brushes that smokers normally use for cleaning their precious smokingpipes after each round of smoking. If this method works on a smokingpipe with a wooden pipehead it should work on a wooden clarinet just as well for the encrustinations are of nearly exactly the same kind. I hope it works and I don`t need to juggle with organic solvents, risking to hurt the shellac`s consistency and turning this fine instrument into a sticky mess. That would be a disaster:-(
Take what you`ve got and make the best of it!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-07-20 00:05
> bottle brush with goathair bristles
Get nylon. Goat hair is good for dust bunnies, but gunk requires stiffer stuff. And while you're shopping, buy a cheap toothbrush which comes in handy for tonehole beds, tenon corks and sockets.
--
Ben
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-07-20 01:27
"Leave it as it is, why fool with a good thing. Nobody is going to get second hand smoke from an old clarinet. If it's good, why fix it."
Because it STINKS as it is. Maybe the original poster doesn't like the foul smell or taste of almost 50 years' worth of someone else's addiction. I can't say as I disagree, either.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2007-07-20 01:28)
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Author: Charlie
Date: 2007-07-20 02:25
if you are willing to invest some money i think you can get some kind of "chemical wash" where they treat it with something. some one want to verify for me? someone mentioned this in a music shop once when i was buying my used R13.
rockerchar@gmail.com
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Author: Kruzi
Date: 2007-07-20 17:17
"
"Leave it as it is, why fool with a good thing. Nobody is going to get second hand smoke from an old clarinet. If it's good, why fix it."
Because it STINKS as it is. Maybe the original poster doesn't like the foul smell or taste of almost 50 years' worth of someone else's addiction. I can't say as I disagree, either."
If it was second hand smoke only, but it is an evil mixture of smoke,saliva,
bore oil,grease and gunk from skin cells and allt the usual nasty stuff that naturally accumulates inside any clarinet that is played:-(
I have scrubbed the wooden parts of my clarinet today and could remove the encrustinations almost completely. What remains is the smoke fumes that have penetrated the wood in all these years and will remain in the
grenadilla for the rest of this clarinets`life. It is indeed a well-smoked instrument one can say for sure;-)
I see it as an advantage now, for there will never be any issues with fungus growing on this clarinet, same for woodworms and book scorpions who normally love to chew on some tasty cellulose.
The old Oehler is fully conserved with nicotine for sure.
After scrubbing off the gunky stuff I went on with cleaning and oiling the mechanics and wooden parts like I do on all my woodwinds twice a year.
Then I reassembled and adjusted it and put the clarinet parts carefully into a light cotton shopping bag. I then took a cellophane bag and filled several handfull of coffee beans mixed with a heaped spoon of powdered cinnamon,
placed the cotton bag with the clarinet parts upon the coffee-cinnamon mixture and sealed the cellophane bag. The clarinet case was treated similarly, except that I rolled the cinnamon powder into some cotton waddish:
http://i14.tinypic.com/4qq8m4n.jpg
I`m trying it this way because I don`t dare to use any cleaning agents and chemical solvents on this instrument. If it was a cheap student or intermediate clarinet model okay, but this is one of the finest instruments I have ever played and I would cry bitter tears endlessly if it got damaged.
And here she is (the one with the thread ligature),
together with her little sister;-)
http://i12.tinypic.com/503l6w2.jpg
http://i10.tinypic.com/62ibndd.jpg
Ain`t they sweet?
:-)
Take what you`ve got and make the best of it!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-07-20 18:14
What make are your clarinets?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Kruzi
Date: 2007-07-20 18:42
Richard Mueller, Bremen.
Take what you`ve got and make the best of it!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-07-20 19:08
OOooh! I was very reliably informed by a German colleague that these are indeed among the best of the best.
And only the best is good enough, so do or have the best possible job done on the rebuild.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: FDF
Date: 2007-08-03 22:58
Sorry, to be so slow to respond to this thread. I had a heart attack and a period of recovery in the hospital. Now, I am home and doing quite nicely.
Some of the responses to my suggestion were quite self-righteous. I was only trying to give an opinion based on my understanding of the original post. The poster later revised his opion of the beautiful clarinet. Why? Who can tell from this far away.
Many of the responses I see on this board are self-serving, so all opinions should be respected. Decisions ought to be left to the originator of the question, without regard to prejudices, bias, and self-interest.
Thank you.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2007-08-04 00:11
It may be possible to change the flavor of the smoke by "curing" the clarinet in a smoker with mesquite smoke or some other flavor.
I've heard that ancient Finns used to cure their Kanteles (guitar like instrument) over a smoky fire rather than using varnishes etc.
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2007-08-05 14:47
Why not leave it as is? It probably has a darker tone because of the crud inside!!! Or maybe lighten the tone by having the keys silver-plated. (He he he!)
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