 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: oleliquoricestick
Date: 2007-05-22 22:34
What do you think? What range did you find? Have you found the Holy Grail? If so, what is it, and why? Do older, vintage clarinets have a warmer tone? Are they worth repadding just because they have a unique tone quality? Or, does a brand new Buffet or Le Blanc turn you motor? Do some really churn out the upper register better than others?
Share your input. Only from those that have really played them all!
Thanks, I look forward to your post.
BTW, I'm new here, I have a Buffet Prestige RC that I love!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-05-23 11:40
Not a 100 but close to it and my first thought this early morning is that the challenge will require a book.
Bob Draznik
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Author: William
Date: 2007-05-23 18:58
I think auditioning 100+ clarinets would make me take up the trombone--after resting my chops for a month, that is...........
Find a clarinet that you like and then learn how to play it--there is no perfect "Holy Grail" instrument but only how well you can control the one in your hands and mouth. Playing Harold Wright's clarinet will not insure that you will sound like him. It's not so much the equiprment but what you can do with it that counts. However, a Buffet Prestige RC isn't a bad way to begin. Good luck.
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Author: oleliquoricestick
Date: 2007-05-23 20:04
So, lets have the book! I would be interested in playing some older models. I used to have a Normandy that was pretty neat sounding. I also played a Signet Selmer that I enjoyed as well. Great response, and the keys seemed to be better fitting than the one I now have. Notably the C/B keys. I would really like to play an old Selmer or Buffet, like a 1920 or 30's that has been re-worked. I wonder if they keep getting better and better, like some guitars and violins over time?
I've been playing for about 30 years now, so I'm not just getting started, I just wanted to hear some opinions that some may have on tone, playablity, control, etc....
TTYL,
William wrote:
> I think auditioning 100+ clarinets would make me take up the
> trombone--after resting my chops for a month, that
> is...........
>
> Find a clarinet that you like and then learn how to play
> it--there is no perfect "Holy Grail" instrument but only how
> well you can control the one in your hands and mouth. Playing
> Harold Wright's clarinet will not insure that you will sound
> like him. It's not so much the equiprment but what you can do
> with it that counts. However, a Buffet Prestige RC isn't a bad
> way to begin. Good luck.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2007-05-23 20:56
I play vintage clarinets exclusively. My collection, and my enjoyment of them, gets pretty close to the center of my life.
My main interest is in Selmer Paris in the 1920s through 1950s, but I have two Buffets from the late 1930s (taking the available serial number charts as scripture, for the present), and two Leblancs that are likely from the late 1940s or early 1950s.
The top lesson I have learned when in the presence of other clarinetists is not to present subjective findings. I think I took this too much to heart and avoid like the plague saying what I "feel" about my instruments (or mouthpieces).
However, I would say that Selmer built a powerful, in-tune (yes! in-tune) clarinet that is easy to play, that has extremely comfortable keywork, and that has a direct sound and response that would be (is) deprecated today as "bright." I have seven of them. It is my opinion that they were unquestionably the best instruments of their time, and I am puzzled that orchestra players used Buffets of the 1930s or, especially, the 1940s. If anyone has experiences or hearsay on this topic, I would love to read it.
Buffet built massively-undercut horns with, in my opinion, tricky, stingy (tight, awkward) keywork. They have a gorgeous tone that is multi-facted, concentrated, and deep ... it is rich and complex, if somewhat less powerful than Selmers. They are flexible to a fault, and intonation is tricky and sometimes (depending on the clarinet) just crappy. Finding a mouthpiece for these beasts is an ongoing task. Buffet seemed to be in a constant design re-evaluation in these years, and two clarinets I have, built within two years of one another (21xxx and 25xxx), have different bore sizes and tonal characteristics.
The Leblancs I have present an entirely different intonation and response pattern. The sound takes some getting used to and is never quite powerful. They are an artist's instrument because they permit an extraordinary flexibility, and I find my performance (such as it is) when using them has an additional nuance. They are not for everyone.
These are just my general impressions over the years. The newest clarinet I own was made in 1970 (a B&H 1010).
I find that if I play any clarinet for three days in a row, it sounds like any other clarinet. But, I'm not thinking of giving them all away any time soon.
Bill.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
Post Edited (2007-05-23 21:08)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-05-23 21:12
Robert...I'll put some thoughts down and email them to you if you are really interested...but they are too extensive for the BB. Need your email adrs.
I am not a professional player and I'm not talking about "auditioning" clarinets at one sitting; I started playing in 1939.
Bob Draznik
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Author: oleliquoricestick
Date: 2007-05-23 22:04
Well put Bill. I am glad to see someone else thinks the same as I do about the Selmer keys. They do play well. And yes, they all do seem to sound the same after a few days playing, but is'nt it interesting that so many sound so different when you hear OTHER people play them.
I'm on the hunt for a vintage I suppose. I never had the priveledge to play an oldie. I do have my DAD's metal one from the early thirty's, but its unplayable (HA)
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Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-05-23 22:44
I wouldn't be surprised if GBK has tried 1000+ clarinets...
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-05-23 23:17
joeyscl wrote:
> I wouldn't be surprised if GBK has tried 1000+ clarinets...
Probably have, but more than half have been my students' Bundys and Vitos ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-05-24 02:29
holding selmer keys is likeee holding a girl in your arms..... just comfortable.
combine the best of all 3. selmer keys, buffet wood (lightweight and has a characteristic sound), and leblanc for the inline jump trill keys, and you will have a VERY sexy clarinet.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: denner22
Date: 2007-05-24 05:34
I have just picked up a pair of Selmer Series 9 instruments. Not truly vintage (1972 and 1973). However these are really nice instruments. They have had very little use - the A I would think has had less than 10 hours playing, so they are very much like new (but aged) instruments!! Very warm, large sound.
They have 6 rings and an articulated G sharp. The engineering is something to behold - no sideways movement at all. The toneholes are all in-line, which makes it a little tricky to get used to for my left ring finger after so many years of slightly offset toneholes.
I play on some of what I consider to be the best instruments that I have ever played (easily more than a hundred - well I think I have probably OWNED more than a hundred!!). Currently these are a combination of Yamaha SEV (b flat) and CS (A) - and yes I did try Toscas as well! In comparison the Selmers are extremely good, but I find they play a little sharp in the upper clarion register for me to use them in an ensemble situation. However I am still considering using them for some solo work.
Very nice instruments that allow the player to display their own personality when playing - not bland, smooth legato and very even in sound throughout!
David 
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Author: Bill
Date: 2007-05-24 10:06
I've been able to achieve good intonation on Centered Tones (and even older Selmers) by experimenting with older mouthpieces. Have been much less successful with similar-era Buffets.
Rather off-topic, but my worst mouthpiece (for intonation) on new and old clarinets alike is a 1950s Ch. Chedeville.
Bill.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
Post Edited (2007-05-24 11:54)
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-05-28 16:45
The best vintage clarinets I've ever played/owned:
1970's King "Marigaux 350" by SML, Serial #3XXX
1955 Buffet R13, Serial #5144X
1961 Buffet R13, Serial #6646X
1974 Buffet R13, Serial #149XXX
1957 Selmer "Centered Tone-Omega", Serial #Q89XX
1952 Buffet Pre-R13, Serial #3900X
1960's Couesnon "Monopole" Serial #243XX
1960's Leblanc "Symphonie-3", Serial #108XX
1960's Leblanc LL, Serial #1222X
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-05-28 17:03
. . . his 997 Buffets plus the 1,003 Bundys & Vitos and one First Act (to see for himself just how bad a CSO can be). Eu
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Author: Bill
Date: 2007-05-28 19:29
Oh man! None of my clarinets made it on Vytas' list! He's probably played half of them! LOL!
Bill.
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Author: oleliquoricestick
Date: 2007-05-28 20:06
Be nice!LOL
WIth thousands to choose from, its nice to narrow it down to a few dozen by some well trained and talented musicians. Thanks everyone!
No real excitment over newer models? The Tosca, Festival, or Selmer St Louis? Not even in the top 25? Wow! Maybe that does give some trueth to the addedge, " the older the violin, the sweeter the music" the older the black wood, the sweeter the tone? Maybe....
Were would a person have the best chance at playing dozens of clarinets to pick out a favorite (you know, one that is right for me)? I know you can find them for sale at differnet places, but if you want to try several at one time, where would you go?
Thanks
Post Edited (2007-05-28 21:06)
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-05-29 01:10
Bill,
I've played six clarinets from your collection. Selmer CT #P98XX and the R13 #93XXX would definitely make my top 20 list.
Buffet #25XXX, Selmer CT #P41XX, Leblanc Dynamique #43XX and Selmer #M84XX are also very nice playing instruments. Top 100 list.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Bill
Date: 2007-05-29 01:25
He-he! Now I feel good!
Your work on them makes them a pleasure to play.
Bill.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-05-29 10:12
I have briefly play tested hundreds after servicing them.
If one thing stands out to me, it is how similar they are, after they are adjusted well.
But I'm only a 3/4 decent amateur player.
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