 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-04-27 02:26
It is NYSSMA time in New York and I have been listening to a number of elementary, junior high school and high school clarinetists this past week.
The playing, as usual, ran the full gamut from exceptional to dreadful, but one thing stood out among almost every player - on every level.
They can not play chromatic scales.
The older students neither play them smoothly, evenly or rapidly, and the younger students are still fighting with the sequence of notes.
I have been trying to figure out the reason why and even examined my own teaching. With all the emphasis on learning the major scales (and minor scales for the older students) the chromatic scale has been seemingly overlooked.
Ask a young student to play a chromatic scale starting on C, and many can usually fight their way through it very slowly, wrong fingerings and all.
Now ask the same student to play a chromatic scale starting on A#.
Sit back and watch the fun begin, because most students don't have a clue.
Perhaps I am missing something, but in my mind, the chromatic scale is more important than the major scales because it (or fragments of it) is used in all music, all key signatures, all the time.
To all teachers - in your lessons, please stress the importance of the chromatic scale (with correct fingerings, please). You are doing your students a disservice if you neglect it.
End of rant - back to your regularly scheduled program...GBK
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-04-27 07:04
Sadly, there's been an example or two here in the army band I'm in (and I'm pretty much brand new to army bands) where it's the same. Which really upsets me. Cause it doesn't exactly put forth a good impression of army bandsmen.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-04-27 07:31
I'm not sure how it is possible to play chromatic scale from C but not from A# (assuming they can play the scale starting on C more than one octave). What am I missing here...?
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-04-27 07:49
aaaahhhh
but should we teach them to use the "flip" fingering?????
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Author: samohan245
Date: 2007-04-27 11:09
i love chromatic scales!!!!
im exceptional in all my scales
major and minor my teacher actually took the time to teach us the chromatic scale
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-04-27 12:26
The fact that some students could muddle through a chromatic scale starting from C but couldn't manage from A# shows a serious lack of comprehension about the basic construction of scales, in general. I suspect these students learned their major and minor scales by rote, because if they understood the theory behind major and minor, the chromatic scale would come naturally: all the teacher would have to do is explain, "Move up and down only by half steps."
Piano instruction can help here, because the keyboard makes the relationships of whole steps to half steps so *visible* that even small children can understand the concept almost immediately. Also, the contruction of the piano fosters teaching of chromatic scales because the fingering for a chromatic run, common in piano music, is considerably different from the fingering for any other scales or runs and is easy even for kids with tiny hands. Any piano teacher who doesn't want to send students to recitals with ridiculous-looking fumble-fingers teaches that fingering during the first year or so. Without a piano, though, the teacher can still explain the basic theory of whole steps and half steps to anybody on any instrument, including the larynx.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: marzi
Date: 2007-04-27 12:28
Thanks for the reminder, son has NYSSMA for oboe next week, and he muffed a simple scale last year on clarinet,(nerves just plays a big part,) so I will check with him, pretty darn sure though his private oboe teacher has this covered. Our school's teacher will advise parents if she doesn't think the student has not worked enough on a solo, therefore avoids embarrassment of a dreadful experience for all. Maybe just the word"chromatic" freezes them up, it always sounded harder to me than it really was.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-04-27 12:48
Lelia Loban wrote:
> The fact that some students could muddle through a
> chromatic scale starting from C but couldn't manage
> from A# shows a serious lack of comprehension
> about the basic construction of scales, in general.
Precisely the problem, especially when the student says, "we never learned it starting on A#."
...GBK
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Author: marzi
Date: 2007-04-27 12:50
oh and P.S>
Parents, don't turn into basket cases when taking your offspring to the NYSMMA thing, then you see the kids turning into basket cases, panic is catching....Volunteered for NYSSMA at our school one year, and you just wanted to calm the parents down, especially the first timers.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-27 13:39
My teacher was never interested in teaching (diatonic) scales during lesson time as he thought it's a waste of a lesson to be teaching and hearing them played for the entire duration, though he would expect we all learnt all the scales in our own time - he would start a lesson by getting us to play a few scales of his choosing, and could tell if we hadn't bothered by saying 'you can teach monkeys to play scales'.
But not being able to start a chromatic scale on ANY given note is pretty stupid.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-04-27 16:55
Alexander Williams had me take the chromatic scale starting on low E and use the Galper pattern, 1 + 3 moving to the next 1. That is, E, F-F#-G#, A-A#-B-C, and so on, holding the low E and then making the next 3 notes a pickup to the 4th note, which is held.
Then he had me play equal-length notes with the same pattern and emphasis, up to fourth-ledger-line G and back down.
He then had me move up a half step to begin on F, so that the pattern began and ended on different notes. Beginning on F# and G moved the pattern to cover the four possible patterns.
Gino Cioffi said he kept his technique fluent by practicing small, quick chromatic patterns -- for example, starting on clarion high C, he would play C-B-Bb-A-Ab-A-Bb-B-C, repeated four times.
Inverting this pattern, starting on low E and moving up, would give students practice on starting chromatically on any note.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2007-04-27 18:17
Practicing chromatic scales, starting at C and working up and down from there, is a great help for me. Keeps the fingers nimble. When I first started doing this, I couldn't! But I couple of months later, I am getting better. Still get very stuck in some places though. I don't use any music while doing this, to give my ear a practice work-out too.
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-04-27 20:34
Gino had me use the Lelanchi Method book, which though quite unintresting , had the neatest chromatic patterns at the end ,starting from low e,four chromatic ascending notes, a skip of a sixth, then that broken chord descending, then returning to the next note, a half step up. I thought that was so neat that I memorized an octave of it and still play it every day.
But, as far as Cioffis "fingers" were concerned , "dosa acame a right froma God", nowhere else.
sherman friedland
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Author: Markael
Date: 2007-04-27 21:07
I wonder if the students who also play piano have an easier time with it?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-27 22:04
The only differences with chromatic scales are the fingerings of the note you start and finish on - if you start/finish on low E or F then you'd get the F# with the left pinky. Start/finish on F# and you'd start it with the right.
Start/finish on any note below Bb and you'd use the cross key for B natural. Start/finish on B itself and you'd use the forked fingering for this one note.
Start/finish on any note below throat F# and you'd use the side F# key, start/finish on throat F# and you'd use the left index finger only for that note.
Pretty straightforward logic.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2007-04-28 04:40
most of the band directors where i teach always ask for it the same way for end of semester exams - starting and ending on the same note. and thus, they know it by rote and don't really understand.
every once in awhile i get annoyed with the little darlings, and throw pages 124-125 of the Klose' book at them. That usually helps.
or write down note names on individual pieces of paper, pull one randomly out of a box, and ask them to start on that note.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2007-04-28 04:50
the old Labanchi method had several pages of chromatic scales, with a separate scale written out for each of the major and minor keys
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2007-04-28 04:53
Kal Opperman has a new book out that I use with all of my students, regardless of age. It's called "The Clarinet Chromatic Machine" and is published by Carl Fischer. It's a terrific resource and one that I highly recommend.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-04-28 05:57
What am I still missing?
If you can play the entire chromatic scale from low E to whatever you can start on any note, because it is the same. I don't understand why it is impossible to start on some notes but not others.
Ken's examples are similar - anyone who can play the entire chromatic scale (up and down) would be able to play them easily even without practice (logically they should at least). The first example is different rhythm but that is just a decision, it is still exactly the same scale.
Chris P wrote:
> The only differences with chromatic scales are the fingerings of the note
> you start and finish on - if you start/finish on low E or F then you'd get the
> with the left pinky. Start/finish on F# and you'd start it with the right.
Why is that? You can start on F# with your left pinky. You can start on F with left pinky and get F# with right pinky. You can start on E with right pinky and you get F# with your right pinky.
> Start/finish on any note below Bb and you'd use the cross key for B natural.
> Start/finish on B itself and you'd use the forked fingering for this one note.
It's possible to use either fingering regardles of where you start but in this case I'd probably do it as you describe in most cases.
> Start/finish on any note below throat F# and you'd use the side F# key,
> start/finish on throat F# and you'd use the left index finger only for that note.
I would almost always use the left index finger for F# when playing the chrmoatic scale regardless of where I start.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-28 08:42
Chris P wrote:
> The only differences with chromatic scales are the fingerings of the note
> you start and finish on - if you start/finish on low E or F then you'd get the F#
> with the left pinky. Start/finish on F# and you'd start it with the right.
Why is that? You can start on F# with your left pinky. You can start on F with left pinky and get F# with right pinky. You can start on E with right pinky and you get F# with your right pinky.
I usually play any isolated F#/C# or E/B to and from a G/D (or any other RH note) with the RH pinky so they're all for the right hand only - just a habit, to me it seems more logical to play them all with the right hand rather than using the left hand for one note that's already covered in the right.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2007-04-28 19:55
I like the Galper method. Have had pretty good success dividing the scale into segments and dovetailing. Ex. (when playing in 8ths/16ths)"
E-F-F#-G-G#, G#-A-A#-B-C, C-C#-D-D#-E, E-F-F#-G-G#-A-A#-B-C-C#-D-D#=E ... and then going down in the same manner. The object is to set up a pattern where the student can let go of their fingers and let the rhythm drive it.
That said, I don't agree that chromatics are most important. (For practical and aural reasons, I believe that the majors are supreme) But I do agree that it's ludicrous to have such a large percentage of students not performing well on these.
I've been surprised at some of my best students' failure to maintain these without 'policing' from me.
I agree with the teacher who said that 'monkeys could learn scales.' I can't believe how many kids require spoon-feeding on this.
Allen Cole
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Author: ned
Date: 2007-04-29 04:45
You'll need to know the chromatic scale to get through "Flight of the Bumblebee''.
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Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-04-29 22:15
My teacher never taught me any scales... He just asked me to prepare certain ones for "next week". This was when i was still young and no idea how scales worked so I was never successful at "preparing" the scales. As I got older he stopped asking me to prepare the scales. So even though i was an advanced highschool student, i didnt know my scales! Then an year ago I had to prepare for an audition and spent 30 min each day on them and learned all my major scales in a week. (I think learning music theory helped). Now Learning my minor scales right now for an audition again. So ya... my scales are self taught...
Interestingly, the second scale I learned (1st one is C major of course) was the Chromatic scale.
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Author: diz
Date: 2007-04-29 23:02
Glenn - the problem is quite obviously with clarinet teachers, yes?
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-04-29 23:23
Wow... I didn't think the chromatic scale was something that someone needed to be taught. It was a staple of my noodling, years before I had lessons.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-04-29 23:25
I've heard players play their set pieces well during exams, but lose the plot when it came to doing the required scales - even chromatic ones.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2007-04-29 23:45
I'm still not getting why so many people think scales are too boring to learn. Learning the scales and the chords is an exciting thing. It's like learning to read: being introduced into the secret knowledge that unlocks the mysteries. The scales are some of the most powerful of the arcana, the spells, the incantations. Imagine the music classes at Hogwarts (where, apparently, some girl once deployed an exploding tuba).
And then come the lesser spells, of course, such as (all together, now, swish and flick): Quartetto Confusio! That one causes people to write Tuesday instead of Thursday on their calendars and show up at your house with their instruments on the wrong date.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-04-30 02:10
Diz wrote:
> the problem is quite obviously with clarinet teachers, yes?
I would agree that the (lowly) chromatic scale is frequently overlooked and not checked enough by teachers who are more eager to have the student prepare and memorize the basic 15 major scales.
Chris P wrote:
> I've heard players play their set pieces well during exams,
> but lose the plot when it came to doing the required scales
A few years ago I had a very fine clarinet student who went to NYSSMA competition on the highest level. He had Spohr #1 in fairly good shape and was eager to perform it.
When the judge asked for some random scales, he tried to set the student at ease by asking first for a C major scale. My student, who was expecting to be asked anything BUT the C major scale, inserted a Bb while ascending.
That one simple careless mistake shattered his confidence and the performance of his prepared solo suffered as a result.
The same type of thing holds true with the chromatic scale, as many teachers either overlook checking on it from time to time, incorporating it into a warm up routine, or working on it consistently with the younger students...GBK
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Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-04-30 03:10
Wow... a goof-up on a C-major. Must have been a stake through the heart...
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Author: old999
Date: 2007-04-30 04:03
Heh, heh. That happened to me. Not because I don't know there are no sharps or flats in C Major, but because I had been warming up in G and when asked to play the C scale I played F sharp instead of F without thinking. The lesson here is to be conscious.
Al
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Author: allencole
Date: 2007-04-30 18:24
It is amazing just how much policing the scales require. As Lelia pointed out, they aren't boring when you know what to do with them, but most students that have problems with them are those who also don't know their theory.
And oh what havoc it wreaks. My bass clarinet kid was 3rd all-state, but did not properly articulate his major scales. It may well have cost him the principal chair--and both his judges made a point of commenting on it.
The student of a friend went to All-State auditions some years ago and froze up when asked for a C-flat scale. She just didn't realize that it was a B scale. It cost her 10% of her score, and kept her out of the band.
In my area, it's hard to get them motivated on scales with so little competition. When they leave this region, though, they often get a hard lesson in that fact that others aren't fooling around.
Fortunately, I'm seeing their band directors placing more emphasis on this in recent years--some backup that I badly need!
Allen Cole
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Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-05-02 03:55
Good thing i know all my major scales... *whew*
Now the minor scales i'm having a bit trouble with...
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Author: bawa
Date: 2007-05-02 10:39
My daughter has always been taught and examined for scales, every exam (which are thrice a year), and these always include majors, minors and chromatic. In fact, doing them correctly, evenly and with a good sound has always been the first goal (as they start with the scales, it is the first impression the examiners get).
Reading GBK's and all these other posts, I now see why! (On the other hand, I thought it was the standard practice everywhere).
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2007-05-02 12:00
Markael wrote:
I wonder if the students who also play piano have an easier time with it?
I would say yes. The fact that you can see all the notes at once on a piano means that learning the patterns of the scales is easier. It also helps with music theory - the notes of C major are the same on any instrument - once you know C major, there is just the problem of playing it on any instrument. If you want to learn harmony, then being able to see the relationship between notes as well has hearing them is advantageous. If anyone is serious about playing music, even just as an enthusiastic amateur, knowing you way round a keyboard is a very useful. You don't have to be much of a pianist, but knowing the notes is useful.
The difficult part of playing scales on a piano is playing both hands at once!!!
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-05-02 12:21
Mike said:
"The difficult part of playing scales on a piano is playing both hands at once!!!"
I would add that the difficult part is playing them with both hands USING THE CORRECT FINGERING!
Post Edited (2007-05-02 20:09)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2007-05-02 12:39
Bawa wrote:
(On the other hand, I thought it [checking students' scales] was the standard practice everywhere).
I'm sure that it IS the standard practice everywhere, but the consequences of failure vary from place to place. Because so many students of wind instruments learn in ensemble classes, they are often (in the US, at least)graded more on their personal conduct than on their achievements.
Most school bands are too in need of warm bodies (particularly on clarinet) to reject those who don't know all their scales. An interesting contrast to most pop bands, which could easily collapse from the damage done by one incompetent player.
Allen Cole
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2007-05-05 00:13
Scale work in all the keys as well as chromatic should be foundational to any instructional program on clarinet or any other instrument for that matter.
Scale runs in various forms seem to be a staple in composing parts for woodwind instruments. In our church orchestra, I bet every woodwind player there could tell you the name of one composer we consider "famous" for putting scale runs throughout our parts on the full range of the instrument too. (David Clydesdale).
Sometimes the actual "work" of doing scales can be boring, but being able to play anything put in front of you in an ensemble can be quite fun!
For what it's worth, I'm also a noodler of the chromatic. It's not something I have to think about much. Just do it.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-05-05 01:16
Even when I was in 7th grade, I never really saw a chromatic scale as anything very challenging. I can remember when I first started out on the clarinet (ny first instrument) that I wanted to learn how to play every note that the instrument was capable of producing. Of course, the altissimo came later, but even so, I was learning chromatics from early on. I just never found it very difficult a concept to master. I don't recall that my tracher ever had difficulty with me learning pieces that had chromatic runs in them, regardless of the note on which they began.
I personally never saw anything that challenging about playing a chromatic scale. I know that one of the first tasks my daughter had to master when we "upgraded" her teacher a couple of years ago was learning all the major/minor scale exercises in the Klosé book. It took her a little time, but she got so she could play them all without much trouble. And really, it's just a basic concentration on the fundamentals.
Jeff
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