 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-04-17 18:39
Great article. I went the day job route .. have 4 kids, wife and support my hobby which actually supports the kids toys and stuff too!! Except time is more valuable now and weighing that between kids and music. .. well, the kids win most of the time.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-04-17 22:15
summary: Get a real day job to support a family and kids.
and if you can't do that
sell cds, do repair work, and teach.
the whole percentage thing is bs in his perspective. i made 10% more.... hooray.... $10. I mean it's great if your making a high five or low six figure income, but this guy makes $17,000 a year. inflation, decrease in demand, and a job that isn't necessarily steady, he's suffering from structural unemployment.
which reminds me of a saying....
"Those who can, DO. Those who can't Teach." which is ambiguous because there are those that DO Teach. and so forth, but the idea is that the guy in the article didn't aim high; he aimed low.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-04-17 22:46
it did seem as though all he did was perform, or try and be the piano for other musicians - no CDs, no piano tuning or repair, teaching, nothing else like that.
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Author: Cat
Date: 2007-04-18 02:49
Here's the thing that throws me, just a touch:
He's been 30 years gigging and STILL hasn't gotten a clue?
If he has (as he says) done "thousands" of jazz club gigs, he's never ONCE picked up on the fact that many of his peers do have to have day jobs to make a livelihood? Or that they use their musical skill in other money-making ways like teaching, etc?
I kind of feel sorry for the rock that he's been living under.
(My apologies if I sound a bit harsh. Music is where my heart lies, but business is where my brain lies.)
_____________________________________________________________
I take great pleasure in torturing reeds once they're reached the end of their useful life.
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Author: old999
Date: 2007-04-18 09:06
>
> He's been 30 years gigging and STILL hasn't gotten a clue?
>
Without a wife and kids to support I guess he wasn't "forced" to get a clue. Life as an artist has no guarantees. I've been reading Ted Gioia's terrific History of Jazz. It turns out that some of the greats had difficulties earning a living at times. The Great Depression, WW2, the technological changes in the music recording industry, and changing tastes of the public all affected the fortunes (or lack thereof) of musicians.
Come to think of it, I know from my own experience that there's no guarantee in any profession.
Al
_________________________________________________________
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Author: dgclarinet
Date: 2007-04-18 15:09
Excellent reply to this guy who I think we can all relate to in some way.
I sometimes think I'm one of the lucky ones...I figured out early in life that I needed more than just making music to be happy. I have a great family, enough income to enjoy life, and I still get to play my horns a lot (now that my kids are older) and I love it more than ever.
My one question to this pianist...you don't know any rich widows who love music?
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Author: clarinets1
Date: 2007-04-18 18:49
my day job is in a music store. keeps me connected to my aspirations...
ah dreams. where would we be without them...
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-04-18 21:56
Apropos of this subject, I thought you would appreciate this cartoon, which appeared in various newspapers today:
http://www.comics.com/comics/moderatelyconfused/index.html
Jeff Stahler, the creator, is the editorial cartoonist for the Columbus (Ohio) Dispatch. He's great.
Susan
P.S. Go back to the cartoon on April 18 -- this site appears to automatically update.
Post Edited (2007-04-19 12:33)
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Author: Brianj
Date: 2007-04-19 10:36
Army bands are hiring every day.....full salary plus medical, dental, 30 days vacation, and education benefits.
SSG Brian Jungen
399th Army Band
Ft. Leonard Wood, MO
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-04-19 11:52
Note: (this is not directed at you, C2thew - I realize you were just using this tired cliche to make a point)
"Those who can, DO. Those who can't Teach."
That phrase has always made my blood boil. I have never met a good teacher who wasn't a monster player. Never. Now, there are some monster players who are NOT good teachers, but whenever I come across a truly good music program, I always have come to learn that the teacher was a top-notch player at some point. And, no, I'm not talking about a symphony-quality player necessarily, but someone who was at the very top of the game in their college or conservatory. And all of us who have come to love music because of a inspired teacher should thank our lucky stars that some of these people who "COULD do" decided to teach anyway.
Yes, I am a teacher. I have played with many orchestras through the years, including subbing for a few "major" orchestras back when I first got out of college in the 70's. Don't you DARE tell me I "can't do".
<end of tirade> 
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Author: frank
Date: 2007-04-23 13:05
Great article that sums up 95% of all working musicians out there. Thanks Ken! Cat, what you wrote was completely wrong. I know plenty of "clueless" virtuoso level players who make absolutley no money playing. Why? Because there are only so many gigs. Oh, and even if you get a gig, they don't pay much. You MUST teach, fix instruments, work at Walmart, etc to survive. I started a similar thread some time ago and it was a long one. There are only so many steady playing gigs out there where one can make a decent living. As I said before, a cop in San Francisco starts off making between 68k and 85k a year with full benefits. STARTING SALARY. That job requires NO college experience or any real work experience.
The point of that article shows what a 50 year old, lifelog "artist" thinks about.... health insurance, an actual place to live in, food to eat, missed opportunities to have a family, a life. Very scary to think that it can turn out that way. Glad I got a full time playing gig! yay!
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-04-23 16:34
Army bands won't hire me. I'm diabetic. How often do the army band members actually need to fight anyway? Isn't their purpose just some sort of morale-based thing?
Chronic health issues are tough for musicians. I have a violinist friend who is going blind because she can't pay for a surgery she needs to correct her rare problem.
The lucky ones are married to someone with full health coverage. I am lucky too in that I have a part time job with health benefits.
Katrina
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Author: Cat
Date: 2007-04-23 22:59
"Cat, what you wrote was completely wrong. I know plenty of "clueless" virtuoso level players who make absolutley no money playing. Why? Because there are only so many gigs. Oh, and even if you get a gig, they don't pay much. You MUST teach, fix instruments, work at Walmart, etc to survive."
Frank, I'm sorry that I don't think I articulated my point well.
I never implied that this guy SHOULD'VE been able to make enough money playing gigs alone. I said nothing about his skill level at all.
What I did say that I was very surprised to hear that this guy has been playing gigs for a long time, and now, at the age of 50-something, seems to be just now coming to the disappointing conclusion that gigging alone doesn't easily make for comfortable living.
Had he talked with his fellow giggers, I think he would've learned that a number of them have other jobs to pay the bills.
Thought I'd said that... guess I didn't do a good job - sorry.
I take great pleasure in torturing reeds once they're reached the end of their useful life.
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2007-04-25 04:15
Almost every professional musician (performer) I've ever met has had to teach to make ends meet. I pretty much think of teaching as a part of being a professional musician, at this point.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2007-04-25 04:35
I think a lot of us are *fortunate* to have teaching jobs to allow us to perform on a regular basis! I look at my "full time" teaching position, which in truth does take up a lot of time outside of the hours that I spend on campus, but I love my job, and working with the students (I have kids in lessons or ensembles at every level, from Kindergarten all the way through college). Then, I look at finishing most of the days of my year in the middle of the afternoon, a summer free to travel to music festivals, etc.
My teaching supports me in a way that allows me to enjoy chamber music, playing with my local orchestras, and doing recitals every now and then...to a degree that I'd never be able to come up with had I tried to pay the bills and put food on the table by doing concerts only. In this way I also maintain contact with a large cross-section of my audience (and potential audience), and feel that in aiding kids to develop discipline and skills I am not just a leech on society, but making a difference for the people around me, whether those people become professional musicians or not.
After all, when they grow up, a music literate generation is what buys tickets to our concerts, purchases our CD's, and sends their own kids to experience that same "magic" that music made in their own lives!
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Author: frank
Date: 2007-04-25 09:17
Sometimes when you are in the fray of a real job or gigging, you get caught up and complacent. So, when that 50 year old guy finally got out of the haze of the everyday routine, he pondered his existence and career. We all do this time to time and it's normal. Most people change careers a few times in their life, musicians included. I know quite a few excellent musicians who quit the game for various reasons. That was a tough concept for me to understand years ago, but now I get it. The pride in being a professional performer can be a powerful notion. The truth I discovered was that there is no pride in just playing music for a living. It's a job, a creative job that is both rewarding and disappointing. In a perfect world, we could all do exactly what we wanted for a career and make a lot of money doing it.
If you are lucky enough to be in the handful of performers in a generation to make an amazing living doing EXACTLY what you want....great! The other 98% better think of other avenues to survive and prosper. Sadly, I am not a better clarinet player than Ricardo, can't sing as great as Pavorati or play violin like Itzak Pearlman. And you know what? I'm comfortable with that! There is always something or someone bigger and better. As for the money aspect, The 3 musicians I mentioned above make chump change compared to a person in business with similar credentials (experience, education) Dig it!
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