 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-03-18 13:42
I got a Lyrique "A" in December, and posted my review of it. Overall I was very happy with it, but it had a few issues (a couple of stuffy notes a few isolated intonation problems), so I sent it back to Tom Ridenour for a little tweaking. He called me a few times, tweaked it a bit, sent it back with a new barrel, and now it plays like a dream - absolutely the best "A" I've ever played.
So I decided to get a Bb as well and give it a test run. I currently play a Yamaha custom with a Backun barrel and bell, recently overhauled by Brannen. I had previously played an R-13 for about 15 years, and a R-13 Prestige for about 7 years. The Lyrique has a darker sound than the Yamaha, no question. At first, I was a bit put off by the resistance - the Yamaha plays very "open", and the Lyrique felt more like a Selmer Recital or one of the new Leblanc/Backun models (I play tested both instruments recently, along with the new Yamahas and Buffets). After a few days, this resistance felt completely normal to me, and I find I have a bit more control over dynamics and tone colors than I do on the Yamaha. The intonation on the instrument is very good - equal to the Yamaha, but the low F and E are in tune (they are flat on the Yamaha).
The key work will take a bit of getting used to. The left hand little finger keys are in a different place than the Yamaha, and I haven't gotten used to them yet. I felt similarly about the Recital when I played it - the Yamaha, Leblanc and Buffet seem more naturally comfortable to me, but I'm sure I'll get used to it.
The most astounding thing about the instrument (and the "A" as well) is how smoothly it plays between registers. This is not a subtle difference - it's genuinely significant. Even my colleagues and students can hear how effortless the altissimo is - you don't have to change your embouchure at all - you just play. When I play difficult passages that have skips between altissimo and clarion registers, I sometimes get a hint of a "grunt" at the beginning of the note - (e.g. altissimo "E" to clarion "A"). These grunts are just completely gone on the Lyrique. Have you ever driven a car that is so smooth that you don't realize how fast you're going? That's how the Lyrique altissimo feels for me - you don't even realize how high your playing - no shrillness, no pinching - it's just another note!
There are things that I like better about the Yamaha - I believe I can play louder on the Yamaha, and the key work seems more comfortable and sturdy. I like the silver keys on the Yamaha more than the nickel keys on the Lyrique. I'm not crazy about the adjustable thumb rest on the Lyrique.
I will say that I now feel that the Lyrique is my primary horn, with the Yamaha as my back-up. For those of you in the market for a new instrument, you owe it to yourself to check out the Lyrique as well as the other brands. It's definitely a pro-level instrument, and at $975, It's the bargain of the century - I predict you're going to be seeing more and more of these.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-03-18 14:01
what is the difference between the Lyrique and the Lyrique Custom? Is the Custom also offered in 'A'?
Mags- you say the low E, F are in-tune? and the middle B, C are also good?
Post Edited (2007-03-18 22:43)
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-03-18 15:18
appreciate the review.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-03-19 02:20
skygardener: Yes, the middle B and C are also good. According to Tom's website, the custom has a hand reamed polycylindrical bore. I've never played a standard Lyrique Bb, so I can't speak to the differences in playing characteristics. The custom is currently $975, and the standard is $850, so I thought it was worth the extra $125 to get the best model Tom offers. I believe Sherman, who posts here from time to time, has a "regular" Bb and is quite happy with it, but I won't speak for him - he is a quite eloquent fellow.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2007-03-19 08:22
Well, at just over $4000 to buy a Bb, A, and Bass Lyrique, I think it's an incredible deal!
Now he needs to make an Eb and sell all four instruments as a set.
Post Edited (2007-03-19 08:22)
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-03-19 14:40
Disclaimer: I do not sell Lyrique,Custom,Arioso, or any product made for or designed by Mr. Ridenour, and we disagree violently on the politicial future of this country (USA).
I have found that his clarinet design is second to none within the business of clarinet manufacture. It was when he designed the Opus, The Concerto and other models for the Leblanc Company that I first became acquainted with his design ability.
The clarinets now designed and prepared by Mr. Ridenour of hard rubber play better than any clarinet I have played ever, including my set of Opus, (or shall I say Opera?)
I receive no compensation of any kind from this designer and writer, and I hate the thumbrest, adjustable though it may be, for I believe it is a recipe for further purchases, that is to say, just because it is there makes one desire to change it endlessly and endless change of equipment is the perfect recipe for never ever winning an audition or getting any kind of job.
The only problem, and it is not really a problem, the altissima high f# is flat, just like any other clarinet I have played, especially when I play my Scheherazade-cadenza speed g Major scale. Of course there are many other ways to play it either intune or even sharp, but not at Indianapolis speeds.
Summing up because it was suggested that "sherman be asked", I am responding with my informed opinion that the clarinet that Ridenour has designed may be the best clarinet on earth.
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2007-03-19 21:47)
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Author: packrat
Date: 2007-03-19 15:14
I hope he makes and Eb as well. If it's as good as the C I bought, I'll be getting one if he does. The intonation was better than my Buffet. I also bought one of his barrels and it has opened up my R-13 Bb clarinet.
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Author: clockwiser
Date: 2007-03-19 18:29
Dear Sherman, could you please comment on the difference between the the newer clarinet designed by Mr Ridenour and his previous ones like the Allora and Arioso?
I understand that his Lyriques Costum are finished by him. Is the Lyrique standard Bb is the same as the older models?
Many Thanks.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-19 18:53
Sherman or anyone who might have an idea - I'm interested to know, since the difference in price (per clarinet) for wood vs. hard rubber is small, what makes Ridenour clarinets so much less expensive, but still be as good as the best professional instruments (according to Sherman)?
They must be cutting costs somehow (keywork?). Either that or other manufacturers up the price by thousands just because of their names, no?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-03-19 19:05
My only thought is it could be a supply/demand thing. While Buffet costs a lot to buy, there's a big demand for it. I'm willing to bet that very few people have heard of Tom Ridenour's Lyrique clarinets, or at least have any inkling of how they play. So maybe Mr. Ridenour or someone working with him drew up a nice little curve that showed the points of intersection between costs and projected sales. At the same price of a buffet R13 or more, it'd probably be more likely that someone would go with the brand name the know and recognize and possible have already heard success stories about. They then kept reducing the price until they had a good compromise between how much profit can be made, while the price being attractive enough for others to 'take a chance' on a product that is so new and not widely known. I guess that price was JUST under the $1000 mark (as prices tend to do . . . be just a few dollars less than some landmark #, in this case, three digits instead of FOUR looks much more pleasing to the eye than being just over $1000, and certainly MUCH more attractive than the cost of a new R13 or other widely known professional level clarinet, and even less than buffets higher level intermediate clarinets)
That's my economics 101 class talking.
Alexi
PS - I'm more interested if/when prices would rise due to it gaining a name for itself and becoming a more popular choice. As demand rises, so would price. Think of those damned beanie babies (hopefully not to that scale though!)
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2007-03-19 19:10)
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-03-19 21:18
I think, (as has been mentioned by Alexi) it is a question of company control of price, and supply and emand.
If one will permit an analogy, I will use Rolex, maker of the worlds most expensive watch. The average low-end Rolex costs about three thousand dollars. (Curious figure, three grand) Is it worth that much money when a three dollar or less quartz watch keeps better time?
Rolex carefully controls the manufacturing process, makes only so many watches and is extremely careful about "knock-off" Rolex watches.They pursue "knock-offs" with a vengeance) There are plenty of these around and some cannot be told from the original, are the same weight, size, heft, and even have real gold as the actual Rolex. (Of course, the gold is from Italy or South American, or elsewhere) but a replica Rolex can be told immediately from the real thing, if you have the expertise. You can get one for a hundred dollars or less, or for as little as ten dollars at some cardboard stores in NYC.
This analogy is not pure, for someone as Tom Ridenour knows the clarinet backwards and forward .
He can make a clarinet from an arguably "better" material for much less money than to make it from Grenadilla and he believes(as do I) that the material sounds as good or better and is more dimentionally stable than is wood.
Hard rubber is super plentiful and is all over Asia. China will emerge(I think) as the maker of the worlds best clarinets because they are superbly competitive,and have the material, (which by the way is easier to machine, regardless of the vast conspiracy who say it is not).
(One has another analogy, which is pure, at least in my opinion, and that is the Greenline clarinet, which many clarinetists prefer to grenadilla, especially those living and playing in cruel climates. For me, that horn is plastic with a bit of grenadilla dust. Careful manufacture, and finishing and they are getting as much as grenadilla, and I've heard that you can get a Greenline Tosca)
Back to Lyrique , all they need is William Ridenour, and we have him right here in Texas.
In my opinion, by playing Arioso instruments(and their ilk) and/or those that he designed while he was with Leblanc, that he knows more and is able to work wonders with the tuning and response of the clarinet. That is to say, really wonders.
As long as he is the producer and finisher of his own instruments and sets them up, they should be purchased as fast one can, because in my opinion, his needs are only his own.
If and when a large company gets their hands on that clarinet, then you will see prices go into the stratosphere.
Just think of their overhead, sales force, advertising budget and all the rest of it. Check the price of your French or Japanese clarinet and you may expect to pay at least as much for the product of hard rubber as designed by him.
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2007-03-20 04:18)
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Author: Dan Oberlin ★2017
Date: 2007-03-19 22:53
Clarnibass,
There's an article at the Ridenour website
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/
entitled "The more it costs, the better it plays-really?"
D.O.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-20 09:49
Thanks Sherman, Alexi, and Dan. I also read the article on Ridenour's website.
There are a few things a bit unclear in the article. For example his claim that a well designed tool and badly designed tool cost the same (he mentions a reamer), and that the actual process of making the clarinet will cost the same with good or bad acoustic design. That might be correct but the research needed to make a good design probably takes many times longer than a bad one. Also, the smaller the tolarence the more it costs, at least that is how it is in metal shos here. So a clarinet made with higher tolarence will no doubt be more expensive, and I'm guessing the cheap clarinets are less accurate.
The whole process of the wood - I don't think it is as big factor as seems to be in the article. Omar Henderson who makes the Forte clarinets just recently mentioned here the diference in total price between wood and synthetic (hard rubber?) is not so big.
I do agree with what he says that higher price doesn't always mean better. I remember that when I tried most Buffet models and liked the much more expensive Tosca less than most of their other models. But the difference in price from Ridenour and other professional clarinets is huge....
Another thing is, there are other small clarinet companies who (like Ridenour) don't have huge advertisement and most of the other things he claims raise the price. Yet these clarinets still cost just as much if not more than professional models form the big companies.
I just thought recently exactly about what Sherman says. How come there aren't any really great clarinets made in China? Almost all Chinese clarinets are known to be bad. As far as I know human work is much cheaper in China, and since that is by far the most expensive thing in the manufactur, if a very good design clarinet was made in China with good materials it should be cheaper than other just as good clarinets.
Where are Ridenour clarinets made?
Mags - do you have an opinion on the keywork of the Lyriqu? How durable do you think it is? Stays in adjustment? Accurate (for example key cups above holes, etc.)? Or any of the other things that make cheap keywork worse than good keywork.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-20 10:01
I'd suspect the Ridenour clarinets (as well as Hanson clarnets) are most likely made in China.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: LesterV
Date: 2007-03-20 11:27
I purchased both an A and a Bb Allora within the last year. Both came in boxes marked "China".
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-03-20 11:41
clarnibass:
The Lyrique keywork seems durable. Of course, I've only been playing my "A" since December, and the Bb for about 2 weeks. On his website, Tom says that the keywork is "an improvement key fitting and durability over previous models". My opinion is that the keywork takes a little getting used to - especially the left had little finger keys. I do NOT get the sense that the keywork is brittle, bendable, cheap or delicate. I guess only time will tell for sure
A key point of Tom's opinion on hard rubber vs. wood is that hard rubber can be used right away, it doesn't have to cure for years, it is easier to machine, and there is very little waste. So although the raw materials may cost roughly the same, the cost of getting a clarinet out of a chunk of the raw material is much less for hard rubber than wood. And regardless of where the clarinets are machined, they are finished by hand by Tom himself - that's huge for me. I'm pretty sure Brannen, Backun, or any of the other clarinet set-up geniuses out there could get a plastic Bundy to play really darn well (except for the sound). Tom sure gets these clarinets to play very very well - it feels like a polished, immaculately set-up professional clarinet - and they sound great, too!
Bottom line: try one - there is a return policy. I'm sure it's not the right clarinet for everyone. I'm also sure that if everone tried one, Tom would not be able to fill all the orders.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-03-20 15:40
As for other small makers charging more than him, they can charge whatever they want. I can take a mouthpiece, take drill to the beak, and resell it on a website as a hand-faced "Alexi" mouthpiece at the price of $400. It's up to what I think my hole-in-the-beak mouthpiece is worth charging. Then again, you can find a dan johnston hand-faced clarinet mouthpiece for $100 dollars. It'll play better than mine, and costs less. Why? Cause that's what he decided to charge.
Tom Ridenour decided that his clarinets would sell for less than a thousand and so that's what they go for. In my mind, it's pretty smart. I'd much rather pay less than a thousand dollars for a clarinet from the designer of the Opus (my current clarinet) if I was looking for a replacement clarinet. ESPECIALLY if there's a return policy. Of course if you're not comfortable with the low price tag and trial policy, there's nothing stopping you from purchasing a Tosca or Wurlitzer.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-03-20 16:28
I love reading about these articles about the lyrique.
"The clarinets now designed and prepared by Mr. Ridenour of hard rubber play better than any clarinet I have played ever, including my set of Opus, (or shall I say Opera?)" That's Exactly what i've wanted to hear. Ever since i've heard of the opus clarinet, there has been nothing but positive remarks about it. At first i was thrown off a bit about how manufacturers were throwing such an affordable price for a clarinet and ASSUMMED it would be inferior etc..... but then i actually tried a mouthpiece refaced by tom rideneour himself from a friend. It played so identical to his frank l. kaspar that i immediately accepted that tom knows what he's doing.
It takes a good time to accept that there is a good manufacturer who's competing against an established conglomerate, but it's true.
Most people purchase things or even get jobs through peer to peer recommendations. Sherman recommended a selmer soloist as my first clarinet and by far he was right on the money.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-03-20 16:40
C2thew wrote:
> It takes a good time to accept that there is a good
> manufacturer who's competing against an established
> conglomerate, but it's true.
There's more than one manufacturer doing just that, from both low and high end pricing.
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Author: am0032
Date: 2007-03-20 19:53
What other maker is producing a new clarinet that people say is 'the best they have ever played' for under $1000? I want to try one of their's to compare with Ridenour's.
Adam
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-03-20 20:59
am0032 wrote:
> What other maker is producing a new clarinet that people say is
> 'the best they have ever played' for under $1000? I want to
> try one of their's to compare with Ridenour's.
Check on the Forte'. I have not played it, but has had a number of good reviews.
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Author: hinotehud ★2017
Date: 2007-03-20 20:59
I bought a Lyrique Bb Custom recently to have a backup clarinet. I sent it back to have one note fixed that played flat. He solved that problem and returned it to me a few weeks ago. I have been practicing on it to get used to the new key placement feel. I used it in the pit for "Music Man' last week. I also played it in a very fine adult band yesterday to see how I matched for intonation. I played the cadenza in the "Aegean Festival Overture". Everyone was very impressed with the tone. The intonation was excellent in both situations. The high F# is a little flat with the traditonal fingering but all others are within a few cents of being perfect.
I usually play on my 1969 Buffet R13 that I love. I use an M30 mouthpiece that had a little adjustment by Robert Scott, and a R. Scott barrel. I played both clarinets in a blind test for my wife, an accomplished flutist, and she thought the Lyrique was my Buffet.
I will keep trying it out in other situations, but the Lyrique may well become my primary clarinet. I really don't notice a differnece with the feel of nickel silver keys. I use a neck strap, so the thumb rest is not an issue.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-03-21 11:26
Ack! The hype got to me and I ordered one. I figured that now as I'm in a military band, and I'll be playing gigs both indoors and outside, and with all sorts of weather and temperature, I have been looking for a little while for a good, NON-wood clarinet. I don't like the stock buffets and greenlines that the army provides (every one I've touched just has some very bad tuning issues with certain notes and is a pain to try to stay in tune with the group), and now I come back and see THIS post on what supposedly is a great hard-rubber clarinet!
Well, I'll be back with my assessment of the clarinet. I figured considering I'm in Iraq now (very dry and hot coming up) and will be going to Korea next (all sorts of weather issues), I deserve to have a horn that I'll be happy to play that I won't have to fear about the wood cracking or swelling or anything.
So I'll post something up when I get it.
Alexi
PS - I have a great opus, but I figured I couldn't be too far off the mark by buying a clarinet made by the person who DESIGNED the opus. So I'm hoping at the very least the clarinet should be a step laterally, if not forward.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-03-21 16:42
Well, I have bought and played the Forte, and it is nowhere in the same ballpark or league or even stadium as is the Ridenour instrument.
I am sure that Omar would agree with me, if in fact he has played the Ridenour horn.
best, wishes,
Sherman Friedland
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-03-21 17:36
(Disclaimer- I am seller of the Forte' Bb & C clarinets)
Sherman, you are entitled to your opinion. The Forte' Bb is less than 1/2 the price of the Lyrique and each is not individually hand tweaked by a master such as Tom Ridenour. The Forte' Bb that you purchased was in the early production run series and significant changes have been made to succeeding production runs. IMO the Forte' Bb can stand on its own good reputation.
With the hand customization done by Tom himself to the custom Lyrique instruments you are talking about a custom instrument. A better comparison would be the Arioso line that Tom has sold the design rights to a Chinese company to mass produce. I have played several of these instruments recently at the TMEA convention (2007) and IMO they do not do justice to Tom's original offerings of Arioso which he attended to individually, or the Allora stencil which also IMO does not even do justice to the Arioso namesake.
I have not played a Lyrique but I know Tom well enough that he has probably made constant improvements to his design, specifications for Chinese production materials and quality control elements, and further individual fixes for individual Lyrique intonation problems (as detailed by new owners above) which probably equate to a very good instrument in a custom class by itself.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2007-03-21 21:21
I have an excellent original Arioso Bb marked Image Artist that Mr. Ridenour hand finished before he introduced the Lyrique and it is superb in every way. I upgraded the pads to custom cut cork on the upper joint and white kid leather on the lower joint. Great instrument.
jmsa
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Author: kuteclar
Date: 2007-03-22 06:07
Wow. So much information!. Someone quickly mentioned the Greenline as the other all-purpose weather horn. How does the Lyrique compare to the greenline for sound? I do not have much experience with the greenlines, but am considering buying this type of instrument for my outdoor performances - and bingo - found this post!
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2007-03-23 02:04
I ordered the less expensive Lyrique today (on Tom's recommendation). I am a relative beginner (3 years) and he said that I would probably not be able to tell the difference between it and the custom. Both have undercut tone holes. He said that usually only professionals can tell the diference between the two and both have excellent tone and playability. He said that he'd be happy to take my extra money for the custom, but he thought the less expensive model would do just as well (for me). I'll let you know how I llike it when I get it. He is very generous with his time and very informative.
Leonard
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Author: clockwiser
Date: 2007-03-23 15:23
Can anyone give some information on how much has the Lyrique clarinet (design wise, i.e. the non-costum) improved over the previous Ridenour clarinets? (Allora, Arioso..?)
Many Thanks!
(edited spelling)
Post Edited (2007-03-23 15:24)
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2007-03-23 20:51
I have a Lyrique and an Arioso ( last production model before the Lyrique ) and can find no significant difference.
jmsa
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-03-23 21:16
(Disclaimer - I am designer of the Forte' Bb and C clarinets)
Perhaps Tom or Sherman would be better at describing the differences but the new improvements to the Lyrique are listed on Tom's web site. Tom has come out with 3 new clarinet lines in the last 6 years starting with the TR147, Arioso, and now Lyrique. I bought a TR147 to show side by side with our Forte' Bb instrument but cannot keep up with newer models. The keywork has changed somewhat over time - the curved register key of the TR147 is gone and from my own observations the keywork is stronger and more reinforced on the Arioso, and from observation, on the Lyrique. Tom, from personal conversations, has indicated that he has changed the bore slightly, and some of the tone hole diameters, undercutting, and placement over time. The Allora is a stencil of the Arioso early models and sold by a big box store. The Arioso design was sold to a Chinese company which is mass producing them. My own observations on the current Arioso and Allora are given above.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-03-23 21:23
> TR147
just a bit of gossip - for some reasons this reminds me of the AK47 which of course nothing has to do with clarinets. I'm not into numerology or other esoteric sciences but wonder why people would choose certain numbers in their model names more often than others. Coincidence or ... ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/47_(number)
(edit: clickable link)
--
Ben
Post Edited (2007-03-24 09:10)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-24 05:40
Tictactux, I assume you mean the gun AK47, but maybe it is named after the AK47 cannabis strain (which is named after the gun) 
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Author: kuteclar
Date: 2007-03-25 20:07
So, any idea if the rubber will stay the dark color? Older hard rubber mouthpieces always seem to lose color after awhile.
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-03-25 21:20
Here are the differences between the Standard and the Custom Ridenour instruments. I asked Mr. Ridenour because of the above questions and answers , and because I had several letters on my own site expressing the same question. Sherman Friedland
Below please find the desginers words:
"Both clarinets are hand tuned. The custom has hand reamed barrels and a different upper joint reversing cone, hand reamed. Also, the custom has more undercutting and detailed tuning. The results is a clarinet with some what more depth and flexibility of tone (and along with it a slight sacrifice of efficiency that professionals and advanced players can handle).
I always feel like pros and beginners both need excellent instruments, but not with the same playing characteristics. Beginners needs a more "set" instrument and a more stable instrument to help them develop good playing mechanics. Pros need and can handle instruments with a little more flexibility for expressive purposes. So, that's what I try to do here with the standard and custom. I succeed by degrees, but doing this is much easier with hard rubber clarinets because they are so very consistent".
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Author: voggorb
Date: 2007-03-25 22:58
Hmm... this Lyrique clarinet seems almost too good to be true for a price below $1000! But basically, what Sherman among others are saying, is that the Lyrique custom can stand up against a Buffet RC and other clarinets in that price range?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-03-25 23:36
voggorb wrote:
> what Sherman among
> others are saying, is that the Lyrique custom can stand up
> against a Buffet RC and other clarinets in that price range?
In short- it and others are worth a try. YMMV - there's been no great groundswell of people taking to the alternatives, but that'd be normal considering how conservative clarinet players are.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-03-25 23:38
THere's a 5-day trial period, from the date you get one, so you could see for yourself!
Jeff
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Author: TheButler
Date: 2007-03-26 07:55
voggorb, I've switched from Buffet RC to Lyrique custom as of last december, and I'm loving it!
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Author: Antonio
Date: 2007-03-26 16:59
I recently test-played the Lyrique Custom, and was not at all impressed. First, only barrels are hand-reamed, while all the other parts were clearly just poured into the mold. And second, the keywork appears to be very low-tech and of a questionable durability. I must be one of very rare customers who returned the horn, which is by the way manufactured in China.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-03-26 17:14
you only analyzed the physical aspects of the lyrique, not the sound. how is the key work low tech? are you saying chinese products are inferior?
i smell bias.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-03-26 17:38
This "made in China" comment is getting old. Yes, there are many inferior instruments that come from China, clarinets included. In the case of the Lyrique, Tom Ridenour designed the horn. They manufacter the body and add the keys in China. Then Tom Ridenour hand finishes each clarinet (regular or custom), and hand undercuts the tone holes and sets up the horn, adjusts key height, etc. If you are not happy with the instruments, Tom is more than happy to work with you and "tweak it" to your satisfaction (he did so for me, with remarkable results). OR, you can send it back within 5 days for a full refund.
The clarinet is not designed in China - it is not finished in China, it is merely "molded" in China. If that keeps you from ordering one to try, so be it. I just sense that some who are too timid to try something new are using the "made in China" comment to satisfy their ignorance.
And when Antonio says "First, only barrels are hand-reamed, while all the other parts were clearly just poured into the mold", Tom clearly states that "the Custom model features an advanced, polycylindrical, hand reamed custom bore design". Is he lying? I think not.
As stated before, not everyone who tries this horn will fall in love with it. Many will, but not all. That's why we have Buffets, Selmers, Yamahas, Rossis, Eatons and Wurlitzers all being played by people who could afford any instrument they wanted. It's time to add Lyrique to that list, IMO.
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Author: Antonio
Date: 2007-03-26 20:40
Mags1957 wrote:
> And when Antonio says "First, only barrels are hand-reamed,
> while all the other parts were clearly just poured into the
> mold", Tom clearly states that "the Custom model features an
> advanced, polycylindrical, hand reamed custom bore design". Is
> he lying? I think not.
Tom may say whatever he wants, but it is my right to verify it. Therefore, I looked into the bore of both main joints, and it was very clear that they were merely cast into the mold and not reamed at all.
The tone was sweet and dark, but the intonation was all over the place.
I ordered the horn with an open mind and in a good faith, and then returned it. IMHO, this is way below the pro-horn level.
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2007-03-27 03:56
So is Lyrique's upper and lower joint not reamed at all?
Then what Mr.Ridenour is saying on his website about reamers is just about
barrels?
Someone can clarify or confirm this?
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2007-03-27 04:37
Thanks, Sherman for clearing up what has obviously been confusing to several people. I spoke to Mr. Ridenour today and got the same explanation. He said that it is not that the customer is "better" than the non-custom. Only different. By talking to the player he can recommend which is best for that player. I told him that I hoped that this would be my last clarinet, and he said that there is no reason that the non-custom model couldn't be it. I'm looking forward to trying it.
Leonard
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Author: Antonio
Date: 2007-03-27 17:01
Koo Young Chung wrote:
> So is Lyrique's upper and lower joint not reamed at all?
> Then what Mr.Ridenour is saying on his website about reamers
> is just about barrels?
> Someone can clarify or confirm this?
>
I confirm it. Only barrels are reamed.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2007-03-27 17:55
<-- "This "made in China" comment is getting old." -->
I find myself in the position of having to agree both with you and Antonio.
Yes, the 'CSO' thing is getting boring and I think that next time someone comes out with a supercilious comment about "just another CSO" they could upload a short video to Youtube and show how it plays.
Nevertheless, I've had the same experience as Antonio with the cheapest oboe sold by Parker.co.uk in the UK. They don't try to hide the fact that it's made in China. Far from it. It was just to satisfy my curiosity about oboes. It sounds beautiful, but the keywork is frightening! Very soft metal and weak springs. The register spring has already stopped working.
Is it fair to blame the chinese for this or the companies who clearly want to import and make as big a profit as possible?
I don't know much about Tom Ridenour's clarinets but I believe he is the only person who compared wooden vs hard rubber clarinets in a 'blind test' - i.e. he asked the audience which sounded best. (Correct me if I'm mistaken).
Given the ease of filming (cheap digital cameras?) and the ubiquitous 'Youtube' why not have some real comparisons uploaded so we can all see?
Steve
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2007-03-27 18:23
Steve, it seems to me you're agreeing entirely with Mags1957, who wrote, "Yes, there are many inferior instruments that come from China, clarinets included" but went on to point out that this does not excuse using "it's made in China" as a criterion for evaluating the quality of an instrument -- especially in the case of an instrument like the Lyrique which is in fact not finished in China.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2007-03-27 20:25
-- "Steve, it seems to me you're agreeing entirely with Mags1957, who wrote.... " --
Yes, you're right. With 49 posts in the thread, I can't remember anymore who said what. ;-)
Steve
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2007-03-27 23:26
I hope, with respect to China, we don't ride that old "made in Japan" breed of mule again, and nearly get blown off it when the Chinese recehorse roars by.
Not too many decades ago if you looked inside a typical Japanese cheaply stamped product it said "Budweiser". But, by the time we quit laughing they had skunked most of the Occidental world in cars, electronics, optics, etc., etc.
The seeds have been planted and the sprouts are weak and tender - easily broken; maybe even no good - but I daresay some of those fledglings were pushed into the light of day by acorns.
Eu
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-03-28 01:15
(Disclaimer - I am seller of the Forte' Bb and C clarinets)
My comments on Chinese keywork are present day - fit, finish, and alloys may need improvement. I have no doubts that given the proper specifications and quality control parameters that the Chinese industrial complex can produce a quality product. Many, many premier companies are now having their products made in China because of the cost of production factors and the products are equal to those made in other countries. These products run the gamut from soft goods to cutlery but with tight control over every aspect of production from raw materials and alloys to finishing steps. Many other types of musical instruments have been successfully made in China and now dominate their respective sales niches and performance characteristics. I would say that the handwriting is on the wall for superior quality clarinets being produced in China - old line companies will have to adapt, utilize the Chinese resource or other countries labor pools and infrastructure, or perish (IMHO)
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: DaveF
Date: 2007-03-28 04:29
An example of what Mr. Henderson is referring to is Chinese pianos. In particular, an artisan quite a ways north of Seattle (in Stanwood), Fandrich and Sons, buys chinese made grands, and extensively reworks them with new actions, strings, and some cases new soundboards. These turn into exquisite instruments, and priced considerably below the great makers. Sorry, kind of off topic.
Dave F.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2007-03-28 05:39
And just look at Chinese violin/viola/cello makers. They've cornered the market in high quality instruments in the $500-$2000 price range for students. Indeed, the $500 violin I recommend to students these days outplays in every single way my German workshop instrument from 1976, and it was $1600!
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Author: classicalguss
Date: 2007-03-30 03:31
I just ordered a set (B AND A) from Tom. My reasons have more to do with my mentor's repect (Everet Matson) for Tom than the postings on this board. I am now playing older R-13's (my A is Everett's from the 50's) and want to try the newer thoughts. The fact that Tom has written that Harold Wright was his favorite clarinet artist made me want to try his instruments even more, At the price, how can I lose? I'll post my thoughts here when I receive them, but I am very excited.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-03-30 18:13
I received my Lyrique Bb yesterday and gave it some practice today. I ordered for two reasons. This board (which has very rarely, if ever led me astray), and because he was the designer of my current clarinet, a leblanc opus, which I love. And I must say, I'm VERY impressed. Outplays the R-13 prestige I was using by far. Tomorrow I will compare/contrast with the R13 greenline that was issued to me. Has a very beautiful sound (I played around switching the two barrels he sent and a few ligatures and mouthpieces to get the best combination IMO) and, like said above, is like a car so smooth you don't realize how fast you're going.
A couple things I'll add to what's been said already (I think I'm adding it . . . so many posts! . . . ). Yes, the keywork seems a different. It's a much lighter action to press the keywork down. Don't know if that's good, bad, or indifferent to the quality. And I do see at least one thing that's odd in the keywork. On my clarinet, the adjustment screw for the throat A key is tilted and hits the Ab key more on the side than in the center. Nonetheless it still works and it's not so far tilted to slip and miss. But that's part of the quality control on the makers of the keywork. It's synthetic cork on the tenons and a synthic cork-like pads on the upper joint. But they all work very well.
Also, (as expected), all the keys are adjusted PERFECTLY. When I press down on a ring, it lines up exactly with the tonehole. It's as though the ring almost 'disappears' from my finger.
From playing, every note seems to have the same resistance, and tonguing is great. I can even on this instrument tongue those altissimo notes much quicker without grunts or failures of sound.
The two barrels, while of different lengths, also play very differently. Like I said above, I played around a bit finding the best combination of mouthpiece/ligature/barrel for this instrument (and a quick aside, the mouthpiece sent with the clarinet of GREAT quality! DAMN! Just what I needed! Another mouthpiece to make me question my current ones!)
Tuning was very good. I don't have any reeds of the correct size (thanks army for being late on ordering them) so I'm using V12 size 3, and so I expect to waver a bit, but the tuning was great. If anything was off, it was no more than 5 cents in either direction after tuning the different sections.
Is it going to replace my custom tuned opus? I don't know. I don't have my opus here to do a side by side comparison. Am I going to return it? No. Even if it doesn't outplay my opus, it outplays anything else I've play tested or owned. And will at least augment my opus as an excellent weather resistant clarinet. And yes. I'm DEFINITELY going to buy an A clarinet from him. (first have to convince the other half that I need to . . .)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: glin
Date: 2007-03-30 23:04
Sfalexi,
You got your Bb clarinet pretty fast. I ordered an A back in early March, and haven't gotten it yet. I've sent an email to Tom and waiting to hear from him. Maybe his A backlog is backed up....
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2007-03-31 04:30
I recieved my Lyrique a few days ago and I was somewhat disappointed that it has that brushed resin look like so many student clarinets. It also feels different in the keywork, especially the rings than my Leblanc Noblet, so it has taken some getting used to and I don't play it as well. After a few days I discovered that there is a problem with the G#/Eb key (loose) and this seems to affect the production of all the notes in that area of the scale, including 4th line D.
I must say that as I've gotten used to it the tones that play properly are very nice. I even took it to my teacher and he was able to play it and said that it was working properly (that was before the Eb key became loose). So I'm inclined to keep it (returning of course to Tom to be put into adjustment. From the comments of everyone on the board, it seems like a good bet. The other model I have considered is a Yamaha 450, and I would appreciate the comments of anyone who has played that as well as the Lyrique. However, I guess when someone like Sherman Friedland says that the Lyrique is the best clarinet he has ever played, attention should be paid.
Leonard
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2007-03-31 04:42
has anyone have any sound recordings of their lyrique that they can post on youtube?
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-03-31 14:38
I'll probably have a recording of sorts (probably very low quality unless our quartet can convince the sound engineers in our unit to help out). Our quartet group leader likes our playing and wants to have some recordings made just to keep and refer to. I'm all for it. But don't look for this in the near future. In a couple months, maybe it'll be ready then.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-03-31 17:21
I'm not sure a youtube recording would tell you much. With my Lyrique, I sound like..........me. It's just a bit easier and smoother to play. The sound is nice, full, and dark, but honestly....on a youtube recording, I'm not sure that anyone could tell one brand of clarinet from another. Can any of us tell when Ricardo (or anyone else) switches clarinets/mouthpieces/barrels? He always seems to sound like himself to me. Buying a clarinet because someone else sounds really good on his is................not smart.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-03-31 18:05
Well, it would prove that ricardo CAN still sound like ricardo on that clarinet, and so that they clarinet won't change your sound from good to worse. However, yes, if anyone heard a recording of me playing a lyrique clarinet, they would not be able to tell if it's the clarinet making that god awful noise or if that god awful noise is just 'me'. hehehe. I will say this, the lyrique clarinet has allowed me to transition between notes a lot easier and has a more even resistance throughout the registers than the buffet. And I still sound like me (rather I like the me better on the lyrique than the buffets I have here) . . . But whether you would like to hear a recording of my sound would be subject to question . . .
US Army Japan Band
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2007-03-31 19:17
Leonard,
I have a Yamaha 450 Bb and Lyriques in A and C. The 450 is a third-string clarinet for me. Once I get a Lyrique Bb, that 450 will be bumped even farther down the list. For about the same price as the 450, I picked up an an Accent "pro" (their term, not mine) model that plays circles around the 450. If I had to choose today, I would pick the Lyrique over the Accent, and maybe even over my #1 Bb.
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