 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: samohan245
Date: 2007-03-17 23:43
hello all,
i have been playing 4 quite some time on a Bb clarinet.
i have recently have gotten a soprano saxopnone in the key of b
my questin is what are some key components that i need to know when playing a saxophone
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Author: bahamutofskycon
Date: 2007-03-18 01:22
The saxophone professor at Shenandoah Univeristy highly recommends Larry Teals book "The Art of Saxophone Playing." It can be aquired on amazon.com for less than $20.
I'll leave more detailed info to people that have more actual experience than me.
Steve Ballas
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Author: Dano
Date: 2007-03-18 04:32
I have gone from Bb clarinet to soprano sax and I can say that the sop. is not a clarinet. It is a totaly different instrument than clarinet and any of the saxaphones. The intonations and variables are so different from any of the saxapones that I put it in it's own class. That is why, in my opinion, there are only a couple of pros that can actually pull it off. Too many pros think they can double on soprano because of the fingering but I think they can't bring out the full potential of the soprano and embarass themselves. I believe that you can't think of it as 'just one of the saxaphones' or 'almost the same as a clarinet'. You might get away with it. Depends on who listens. It is a hip instrument that attracts alot of people. I think you have to dedicate yourself to the soprano without comaprison to any other instrument. Kenny G. ruined the whole soprano sax thing and it is still on the rebound. Listen to Branford Marsallis, John Coltrane, Zoot Sims and Charles Lloyd.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-03-18 04:49
Dano wrote:
> Kenny G.
> ruined the whole soprano sax thing and it is still on the
> rebound. Listen to Branford Marsallis, John Coltrane, Zoot
> Sims and Charles Lloyd.
Ruined??
Like him or hate him, Kenny G was responsible for the "rebirth" and sales of more soprano saxes than all the rest of the above names combined.
Every quarter when the execs at Selmer, Yanigasawa, etc.. tally their total sales... they say a little "thank you" to Kenny G ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2007-03-18 07:43
I read somewhere that the soprano sax tends to sound like a snake charmers horn.
jmsa
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2007-03-18 08:16
Yes, can sound like snake charmers horn, beautiful oboe, glorious cor Anglais and a soprano sax as smooth as the aforesaid Kenny G or anywhere in between. It's all to do with the player/m/p/reed/instrument combo............ surprise, surprise, just like all other single reed instruments. I've just got a great Yani sop recently and can recognise a few of the above (not saying which).
I don't however, find myself in a position to criticise particular players, however if some individual does so much to popularise the playing of an previously unsung wind instrument, (even inadvertantly), surely this is worthy of a little respect from our single reed community.
After all, live music, (in this computer/television/electronic age), is reportedly in decline and anything to promote a wider acceptance of "hands on" playing for our youngsters, is surely a bonus for the musical community, the population at large and the future of music. I say this regardless of any specific instrument.
BobT
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2007-03-18 08:55
Walter Blanding has one of the most striking performances of the past decade on soprano sax on the new (March 2007) Wynton Marsalis CD, From the Plantation to the Penitentary. IMHO, Blanding exhibits a true mastery of the instrument, and he has a very unique style.
George
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-18 11:27
Don't play it with a clarinet embouchure or you'll go well sharp up top. The embouchure is looser across the range, and tightening up will throw the tuning out.
And give it plenty of support in the lower part of the low register from F downwards to prevent things getting unstable or 'bubbling'.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2007-03-18 11:29
I always liked Steve Lacy's style -- he was playing it before Coltrane gave it the first big shot in the arm. Of course Sydney Bechet pre-dated Lacy by some three decades, but I don't think that heavy vibrato translates that well anymore. Another nice sounding horn (to my ears) is Paul Winter. Anyway we don't know if samohan is interested in playing jazz/pop or something else. Check out Raaf Hekkema in this clip:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BzP8aKNSIg8&mode=related&search=
Here's something I think is important. If you look at the other members of the sax family you see that the mouthpiece is much closer to the horizontal compared to the clarinet. Many clarinet/soprano doublers try to hold the straight soprano as if they were holding a clarinet. Does yours have a curved neck? If not, you want to hold it up and out a bit more than you would on the clarinet. You need a good right arm to accomplish this; tennis elbow forced me to sell my old Mark VI a few years ago.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-03-18 11:32
'Kenny G ruined the soprano sax thing'
I have noticed that a lot of sax players always pick on Kenny G. Is it because he actually makes a good living at it and doesn't have to tell the audience it's good- they just like it?
I suppose Goodman ruined the clarinet thing, Elton John ruined the piano thing and, Eric Clapton ruined the guitar thing, and Yo-Yo Ma ruined the 'cello thing, too?
Don't hate a man just 'cuz people like it.
Post Edited (2007-03-18 11:34)
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Author: samohan245
Date: 2007-03-18 12:17
thank you all for support ill put all this information in mind when i play.
but clarinet is my first pride and im not giving it up to play the sop. sax
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Author: hans
Date: 2007-03-18 13:30
samohan245,
I started playing clarinet nearly 48 years ago, in 1959. About 8 years ago, I was playing in a swing quartet (still do) and wanted to add a 4th voice to my clarinet, alto sax, and tenor sax.
I rented a soprano sax for a month to try it, expecting it to be easy. My experience was exactly what Dano described above. After a month I decided that it was going to require more time commitment than I could spare to create a nice enough sound that would satisfy me, and I gave it up.
Your experience may differ.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: Dano
Date: 2007-03-18 15:31
Yes. Kenny G. ruined the soprano sax thing. It's my opinion that if you take a soprano sax and play it dull, electrified with little emotion, you ruin the 'soprano sax thing'. Kenny G. took the money handed to him and that is great. I would love to have the ability to dupe people and ride the wave of simple, background music as well as he did. It has little to do with money. That instrument has much more to give than he produces. I am sure Kenny would agree with me. I find it difficult to believe anyone would give him credit for being 'a great musician'. Maybe I am wrong.
Sax players come down on Kenny G. because he turned the soprano into an instrument to make 'elevator music'.
GKB, the popularity of something does not make it a positive encounter.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-03-18 15:35
We've had enough Kenny G. bashing now on a clarinet BBoard. Please get back to the question at hand.
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2007-03-18 17:44
i am finding my soprano sax very difficult to play, although I have a much easier time with the alto sax. I should practice the sop sax more than I do; however, oftentimes just give up in frustration. When it is played well, it is certainly a beautiful sounding instrument. I will keep at it as I am the determined sort and maybe one of these days! Who knows! The embouchure seems to be quite different from the clarinet, and I think that is the problem I am having.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2007-03-18 17:47
Samohan245,
Similar (but reverse) questions as yours are posted from time to time on the Sax On The Web forum from saxophonists who want to begin playing clarinet. The replies given always include this advice -- "study with a teacher". I highly recommend that you invest the time & effort in working on your soprano with a good saxophone teacher in your area. Especially, one who actually plays the soprano. It will make a world of difference than if you attempt to learn how to play the soprano on your own.
There is nothing more BEAUTIFUL than a dark, clear classical soprano saxophone sound (whether it's a classical or jazz player). On the other hand, there is nothing more TERRIBLE than the sound of a soprano saxophone played poorly....or having a "snake charmer" buzzy kind of sound. Hurts my nervous system thinking about it.
There are a good number of classical and jazz soprano saxophonists having a beautiful sound that you can use as a role model. I suggest that you check out Jane Ira Bloom. Wonderful soprano player! She studied with Joe Viola -- one of the true masters of the soprano saxophone. One can hear Joe in Jane's soprano sound and playing.
Good luck!
Roger
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2007-03-18 18:16
Long before the current craze with the "fish horn" (as one leader of my acquaintance calls it), there was Charlie Barnett. Lyric, smooth, and without the "waver" that modern players occasionally effect. Go listen to some old records.
I had a soprano when I was young, when money was (relatively) flush, and when the horns were cheap. However, I never played it enough to develop the kind of sound that I wanted to emulate. It is a difficult ride when played correctly, and I would second the recommendation to find that teacher who has experienced the issues involved with the little horn, the better to avoid having to work through them all.
The technique is much the same on it as on the others (although I cannot abide altissimo on the soprano; others may positively love it), but the embouchure and breath support are different (as are all of the saxes). How different I just can't quantify - that's where a full time sax teacher would come in handy. And, it can be played musically, just as another other sax cannot (and as clarinet often is not by sax players - sorry, guys).
It's goes much deeper than this, I'm afraid. The big problem with saxophone of any species (top to bottom) is that players tend to "pick it up" without any formal training (even without any public school training, the bare minimum). Clarinet (and trumpet, and oboe and French horn) is almost never learned this way, relying instead upon the traditional pedagog approach.
When you learn on your own, you tend to learn only what you want to learn. No problem with that as long as you are learning for your own enjoyment, but a big problem when you intend to play with others. That's when the irregularities of technique and intonation come out. And, that's often too late to start fixing things as you're then too old to learn easily. Bummer.
And, we can take comfort from the fate of percussion, guitar and bass players, who often are from the completely "self taught" school. At least virtually all of us can read music, more than can be said about that crowd...
Finally, whenever I get on this rant (self taught folks not bothering to learn what's needed), I always have to close with the cautionary tale of my old acquaintance Steve Allen (as in "Hi-ho, Steverino!", married to Jayne Meadows Steve Allen):
Steve was a fabulous pianist, a pretty good clarinet player, a prolific composer (close to the most published tunes in history, if what I have read is true), and a pretty decent guy in the bargain. He accomplished all of that, over a long and fulfilling life, without having the ability to read a single note of printed music. An exception, if not the one that proves the rule...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-03-18 18:52
Contributors have mentioned the difficulty of getting control over a sopo. I think that is because the instruments are hard to make, and only a few good ones exist --those that speak freely and play in tune.
I belive that a good sopo is much rarer than a good clarinet.
I'm waiting for my best friend to die so i can buy his Selmer Mk VI from his widow (seriously!). Before I play it, I'll toss the shrill mouthpiece he's using, tho.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2007-03-18 19:31
Hi Bob!
I have to differ with you. The quality and intonation of soparnos has improved greatly over the past number of years. New Yani sopranos are exceptionally good instruments. That said, my all-time personal favorite is the late 20's Buescher True-Tone. The best soprano I ever played -- in terms of intonation, sound, and over-all playability -- was a 1928 Buescher. It's sound was the soprano saxophone sound of my dreams and intonation (with a large chamber Morgan mouthpiece) was spot-on. Fantastic horn!
There are plenty of good soprano saxophones around. There are also plenty of not-so-good ones. Play testing different models and careful discernment are needed. Personally, I'm not a big fan of Selmer sopranos. It's been my experience that one can do better with a new Yani or a late model Buescher True-tone. There are other good ones of course. But, these two stand out in my mind.
Roger
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Author: ned
Date: 2007-03-19 07:21
''I'm waiting for my best friend to die so i can buy his Selmer Mk VI from his widow (seriously!). ''
I can't bevieve your'e serious!
I'm trying to convince the widow of a former colleague to let me help her sell her husband's Mk IV Alto.
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Author: ned
Date: 2007-03-19 08:46
I can't believe my incredibly bad grammar.
''bevieve''
''your'e''
And it's a Mk VI Alto - probably my bad typing as well.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-19 13:06
Every new Selmer soprano I have encountered in recent years has arrived with significant leaks, mostly under pads in the most inaccesssible places. G# opening spring strength needs attention to.
I deal with these and play test, and say "Wow!!!"
Then, sometimes, I get out my Yanagisawa Elimona, to compare, and say "Wow!!!"
Both are fantastic instruments. In tuning, tone, evenness up the scale..... Awesome!
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Author: Kel
Date: 2007-03-19 14:19
As several posters have already pointed out, soprano sax takes a high degree of dedication. It is not an instrument you can casually add to your assortment of saxes and clarinets. I found a good buy on a Yani S990, and thought "why not?" I soon found out. Rotating practice and performance allows for reasonably good skills on clarinet, alto, tenor and bari. Soprano requires almost daily practice even to maintain an acceptable level. Maybe others can pick it up and play it well, but not me. And the world is over-supplied with poor soprano players.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-03-19 17:01
Hmm...I just got a sop sax last night. I have only 3 months' experience (about 6 years ago) on an alto, and 28 (!) years on clarinet.
I have to learn some Romanian folk tunes on the sop because it's the closest thing to a tarogato we can get easily (and cheaply). Our show is in a month.
Last night and this morning I practiced the fingerings. Close, and close to flute too, but still a little tricky across the break given my years on clarinet and on flute.
Low notes=scary...someone mentioned above to support the lower tones. Is this air support or embouchure support? It's unclear to me from that posting.
I haven't (yet) worked with the tuner cause I didn't want to completely scare myself before learning the fingerings!
Any other hints for someone who has to learn it FAST?
Katrina
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2007-03-19 18:49
Hi,
I play soprano sax regularly for both jazz and well as classical (oboe transpositions) for church or shows. I work a lot on reeds, embouchure, and control. On jazz jobs for ballads and Latins, the sop sax is a real gas. I use a very traditional Selmer S80 C* MP or a Meyer 6; a Beechler metal 7 is one I want to get after having tried one at WWBW last year.
If you want to hear some really great sop sax playing, check out Branford Marsalis on Romances for Saxophone. Very nice Faure, Debussy, Satie, etc. Wonderful tone, phrasing, and musicality.
HRL
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-20 00:10
Katrina,
For the low notes (from F downwards), give plenty of breath and embouchure support - on some sopranos the low notes can bubble like mad.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-03-20 00:19
The slightest pad leak (usually found in the LH palm keys) can play havoc with the response of saxophone low notes ...GBK
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-20 14:53
On a half decent soprano with no leaks, the low notes should be really easy. Yes, leaks kill low notes, and most new (and second hand) saxes leak. It's well worth getting it checked by a good technician.
Sops are a lot more sensitive (than alto or tenor) to the mouthpiece being pushed on far enough, otherwise low notes can warble, more with some brands than others.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-03-20 15:15
WOW
It's good news to hear that in-tune, responsive sops are now available.
Yeah, I'm (half) kidding about stealing a Selmer MK VI sop from a widow.
Make sure that your prospective sop's mechanism is sturdy enough to make those pad seal adjustments permanent.
Seriously, listen to the sound of Frank Weir: Happy Wander, Shoemaker's Shop, ... from the late 1950s
Bob Phillips
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2007-03-21 02:39
Thanks for the tips, Chris. I seem to be managing the lower notes pretty well, with only occasional burbly bits.
I also seem to be doing tolerably well as far as tone quality goes in general, since I am after all attempting to mimic a tarogato, but the really big pain in the bleep is the intonation!
The "open" C# is about 40 cents flat, when I have the mouthpiece adjusted to where all the other notes are no more than 10 cents sharp.
Any hints there?
Katrina
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Author: Saxismyaxe
Date: 2007-03-21 06:00
As others have eluded to, the Soprano is, together with the sopranino, the most difficult member of the saxophone family to play and play well.
Without the commitment to study this horn in the dedicated and studious manner it requires, I would select another member of the family such as the Alto or Tenor to tool around with.
BTW, even those horns with the best natural intonation must be played with attention to the tuning and embouchure paramount.
Mike S/Saxismyaxe
Administrator:
Saxontheweb.net
Vintagehorn.com
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2007-03-21 13:00
Difference between the clarinet and the saxophone? - Bad clarinetists are embarassed about their level of ability ...
;-D
But seriously. I had a go on sop sax once. Couldn't play it... very different technique required.
Post Edited (2007-03-21 13:05)
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Author: am0032
Date: 2007-03-21 14:37
Katrina,
The open C# is usually flat to some degree on most saxophones. You can push the side C key(RSK2) to bring the pitch up. Inversely, the C# with the octave key is usually sharp. You can put down any of your first three fingers down to bring down the pitch of that note.
Adam
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-21 14:58
On some sopranos (like the MkVI, most older US models and several recent or new 'cheapos') the open C# vent is connected to the 'bis' key, so putting down (or not releasing quickly enough) any RH fingers will keep the vent closed, giving C instead of C#.
A lot of sopranos have the split C# key so the 8ve key reduces the venting in the upper register by lowering a perforated key (eg. found on MkVI, Yamaha YSS-61, Yanagisawas and their Taiwanese and Chinese copies) or (as on Yamaha 62 and earlier Jupiters) lowering the upper of the two small vent keys so the upper register C# is in tune.
But on the recent Yamaha sopranos (475, 675 and 875) there's no such linkage from the 8ve key to lower the C# vent, so they work just as any larger sax would do, with only LH 1 and 2 closing the C# vent.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: samohan245
Date: 2007-03-21 23:08
thank you everybody for this precious information!
ill remember every word all you said
thank you much
sam hanson
clarinet/bass clarinet
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