 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DennisCheng
Date: 2007-03-17 09:07
Current embouchure-I still bite , but not intensely, only leaves a weak teeth mark on my lips
my teacher told me to lower my jaw more so that i will not bite.
But when i lower my jaw, i sound flat.When i blow in more air, it doesnt really go sharper.
What should i do?
one more qn: when playing, is our jaw suppose to move forward?
Post Edited (2007-03-17 10:01)
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2007-03-17 09:25
Pay attention to your throat and tongue. Both should be in a high position. Try aiming for an "e" sound. It might even help to just sing "eeeeee" on one note before practice as your warm-up.
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Author: DennisCheng
Date: 2007-03-17 10:04
what do you mean by high position?
Does singing ''eee'' suppose to help me form the correct embouchure?
I tried already but i still flat.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-03-17 11:00
A lot of what I saw on this board considers the tongue in a high position to be like if you were imitating the hissing of a cat. That seems to put the back of your tongue closer to the roof of your mouth while keeping the front of your tongue lower.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2007-03-17 11:03
This seems to work for me to avoid biting.
Initially I form a firm embouchre, then when I feel like more pressure is required (where I used to bite), I keep my embouchre firm but increase upward pressure by lifting the clarinet sliightly with my right thumb. My jaw position doesn't change, but slightly more pressure is applied evenly to the reed.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-03-17 12:27
Hello Dennis,
I used to move my jaw forward to meet the mouthpiece when I played. It was only a subtle adjustment, but I would continue to play with my jaw slightly forward.
I eliminated this problem with a great deal of patience and a mirror, and I it has definitely improved certain aspects of my playing (tonguing, decreased tension, etc...)
You mentioned in your post that you try blowing more air and the pitch stays flat: of course it does! The louder you play the lower the pitch, the softer you play, the sharper.
The high tongue position mentioned by Morrigan and sfalexi is a prevalent fundamental to many (but not all) clarinetists. If the back of the tongue is high then a smaller aperture is created in the back of the mouth, increasing air speed into the mouthpiece.
The result provides many benefits including a more "ringing", overtone rich sound, faster tonguing (with proper fundamentals) and higher pitch (at least for me!).
James
One more tip I've heard that works: when you are biting conciously push down with your upper lip...this seems related to John's suggestion!
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: DennisCheng
Date: 2007-03-17 13:39
argh!
so many things i have to correct.....
anyway, thanks for the replies, really appreciate it.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-03-17 13:52
i met a Clarinet PhD candidate a couple of weeks ago who described the high tongue positioin as:
"being able to feel your molars on both edges of your tongue."
TRY THAT! (ARGGH)
Bob Phillips
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-03-17 14:44
Dennis,
the 'eee' sound makes your tongue a good shape for clarinet. It is not a lip change. the 'eee' shape can be had with many lip positions.
but one thing I have noticed a bit. try to relax with things and know that nothing will be instant. there is nothing we can tell you that will make you sound like any great player tomorrow.
I only reciently started enjoying music a lot more when I started enjoying the 'journey' and not the 'destination'. next time you play, try to sound like 'Dennis'. if you like a player's sound, try and get their 'sound' and NOT their way of doing it. I have my body and you have yours- we could end up with the same sound but you and I might do different things to get it.
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Author: DennisCheng
Date: 2007-03-17 15:25
Thanks skygardener for sharing the knowledge. Yup, i know i'm little impatient now ... i'll try to slow down abit and enjoy.
But one thing i'm not sure.
How do i stop my jaw from moving forward whenever i play? i tried but it's so hard to control...
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-03-17 21:33
Hey Bob,
"being able to feel your molars on both edges of your tongue."
...That's exactly what I do!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: bstutsman
Date: 2007-03-19 04:57
Many good suggestions here about dealing with biting. However, have you considered *why* it is that your chops feel the need to bite.
I have found with my students that biting comes from one of two sources: improper playing habits or tension.
See if you are playing with tension in other areas. Are your fingers/hands too tense? Do your shoulders hunch up when you play? Is you back perhaps a bit too stiff? Tension in one area can spread to other areas. If tension is a problem, you can try relaxing the throat and let it open up as much as possible. I know many teachers don't want their students to play this way, but this is just a temporary tension remover. Warmup with long tones and think relaxed, open throat in all registers. Use half-notes and play low E. Then go up to B, E, B, E (top space) and then back down. All slurred in one breath. Then do the same thing a half-step higher. Always thinking relaxed, open throat with no tension anywhere in your body. (This is also a good tone builder.)
Might you be biting because your mouth grip on the mouthpiece feels insecure? Look at the mouthpiece and see if you are getting 2 fairly even marks from you 2 front teeth. Or do you see one large mark and one small one? If the latter than it might be that you grip is insecure. It is easier for the mouthpiece to move in the mouth if one tooth is doing a lot more of the work and you might be unconsciously compensating by biting. If this is the case, you might adjust the placement of the mouthpiece ever so slightly in your mouth so that both front teeth are doing roughly equal work.
I don't know what your set-up is, but I know that sometimes a too stiff reed on a too open mouthpiece can cause a player to bite. It is an unconscious attempt to get the reed closer to the mouthpiece.
If you are not already doing so, you might put one of those pads on your mouthpiece. This may give you a more secure hold on the mouthpiece without biting.
Another psychological thing you can try is to trade away the vertical pressure of biting for using more horizontal pressure by making sure the corners of the embouchure are firmly against the sides of the mouthpiece. This is a good habit for most players anyway.
Good luck, hope this helps
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2007-03-19 13:32
May I throw in a little rebellious spirit here.
It strikes me that most players play with some support from under their lower lip. That support, by definition, comes from at least some force applied by the lower teeth.
People with firm lip tissue, for whatever reason, probably get away with less support from the teeth. Experienced players probably have firmer lip tissue than beginners, especially children, and have well-developed muscles that support the lower lip.
Surely "biting" refers here to force applied by the lower teeth. So almost all players bite.
So may I suggest that we stop treating it as such a dirty word. For beginners I reckon it is downright misleading to do so.
It is EXCESSIVE force applied that we try to avoid.
Defining "excessive" is a much more complicated thing...
If I am 4 months rusty from the last show I played in, and then launch into high-density rehearsals and nightly performances of the next show, with demanding altissimo playing included, then my lip, that has lost "form" from 4 months of no playing, most definitely needs more support from somewhere, until it hardens up again and the muscles return to form to give the support they offered 4 months ago. Therefore, in order to perform, I HAVE to use additional support from somewhere. The only option is a little more force from my lower teeth. No use screaming "NO BITING" me, because without that extra support, I could not perform with a reasonable sound and control.
By the end of the season, I can relax that additional force again.
In this case, what was so very wrong with a little more force from the teeth to the rescue, i.e. "biting".
Now take the case of a beginner who has unhardened lip tissue, and relatively undeveloped lip support muscles. Isn't he/she in exactly the same position until tissue firms and muscles develop stamina?
Biting is OK. We do it. It is all a matter of degree, depending on our situation. So lighten up. :-)
What we should teach is to try to keep it to a minimum, in order to allow development of the lip support muscles, and waiting until that lip tissue firms up (actually from the hiding we give it from the teeth and the reed!)
Putting all those thought-lacking cries of "NO BITING" aside, is all the above that far from the reality?
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Author: RAB
Date: 2007-03-19 13:36
Get the book
Embouchure Building by Larry Guy
This is a wonderful book and has thoughts from all the Great Clarinet Players
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