 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2007-01-29 20:47
I'm need to find some waltzes in 5/4 that would be intriguing/familiar to 6th grade students. Any suggestions?
We're doing a piece called "Quintilian" that, oddly enough, is in 5/4! Amazing...
I'm trying to get them to get "the feel" for the style it should be.
-pat
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2007-01-29 21:01
"Take Five" by Paul Desmond/Dave Brubeck (not exactly a waltz)
Movement 2, from Tchaikovsky Symphony #6 "Pathetique".
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-29 21:05
'Mars - The Bringer of War' and 'Neptune - The Mystic' from 'The Planets' (Holst) are in 5.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-01-29 21:06)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-01-29 21:23
Possible interesting aside: Until recently I had always assumed that the title of the piece "Take Five" referred to the band's taking a five minute break but lately I'm wondering if it is a reference to the 5/4 time .
Bob Draznik
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2007-01-29 22:06
I hadn't thought to look into the jazz genre for this. Excellent suggestions so far!
-pat
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Author: am0032
Date: 2007-01-29 23:50
The second movement of Tchaikovsky's "Pathetique" Symphony is in 5/4. Probably not kid material though.
Adam
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2007-01-30 00:54
"Until recently I had always assumed that the title of the piece "Take Five" referred to the band's taking a five minute break but lately I'm wondering if it is a reference to the 5/4 time ."
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It's title was deliberately meant to imply both. But it wasn't Brubeck's idea.
The Brubeck Octet, an "experimental" group from central California in the late 40's, many of whom had studied with Darius Milhaud who had moved to the bay area to teach in his later days, counted as some of it's members Paul Desmond, Dave Brubeck, William O. Smith (yes, THAT William O. Smith), etc.
The original composition on which Take 5 is based is Paul Desmond's Take 10 (in 10/4 time). It's still in print and you can take a short listen to it on Amazon. Not kiddie material to be sure though.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2007-01-30 06:53
There are also German folk dance tunes called zwiefachers which contain measures of two (on which you pivot, as in polka) and measures of three (on which you do waltzing steps), in various alternating patterns. These are therefore not really 5/4, since they are distinct measures, but they certainly have a different feel than either two or three alone.
Some examples may be found in the "Couple-Dancemusik" book described here:
http://home.comcast.net/~peterbarnes/pubs.htm
Steve Epstein
Post Edited (2007-01-30 06:54)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-30 10:27
5/4 is usually divided into 3/4-2/4 or 2/4-3/4 (or even 6/8-2/4 with the quaver lengths being equal) depending on what the composer wants.
Hasn't Bartok's 'Concerto for Orchestra' got a 5/4 section in it for the strings?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Jhall
Date: 2007-01-30 20:32
There's a cute Concert Band version of "We Three Kings" titled "We Five Kings" which puts the melody into 5/4. It's arranged by Mark Williams. My kids loved playing it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-30 21:45
I remember NYJO doing a Christmas piece about 20 years ago called 'Wenceslas Squared' which was in 5/4.
Talking of which, I had an opportunity to play flute with them this Saturday just gone as their flute player couldn't make the gig at RAF Uxbridge - I was there anyway and borrowed a Powell 2100! Nice flute, shame about the lack of adjusting screws (and the player!).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-01-30 23:28
"Theme from Mission Impossible" (original version)
However, the film version was changed to a 4/4 time signature as opposed to composer Lalo Schifrin's more uncommonly used (in pop music) 5/4...GBK
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2007-01-31 02:20
There is a lovely thing called False Valse in the Gypsy "hot club" (really musette) style, played by Hot Club Sandwich. There is a streaming mp3 here:
http://www.hotclubsandwich.com/music.html
John Morton
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2007-01-31 02:59
John Morton wrote:
> There is a lovely thing called False Valse in the Gypsy "hot
> club" (really musette) style, played by Hot Club Sandwich.
> There is a streaming mp3 here:
>
> http://www.hotclubsandwich.com/music.html
>
> John Morton
>
Oh yeah
Sounds more like measures of two wedged in with three rather than a pure 5/4; then the "B" part or bridge is just in three with emphasis on the second beat, but that is great stuff.
Steve Epstein
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2007-01-31 04:41
The "False valse" is quite enjoyable to listen to. The opening reminded me of a Piazzolla (sp?) tango I listened to earlier in the week. Can't remember which one.
I may have to pick up this album...so much great music being created that we never find out about because it isn't "marketable".
Jhall - I'll have to look into the "We Five Kings". I don't think it's in our district library of music. That would be a great introduction into the meter.
You guys are giving me some great ideas that I would have never thought about! Thanks!
-pat
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2007-01-31 15:50
When I was a drill instructor in the US Army back in the early 1970's, there was a move to make drill and ceremony (marching in formation) more precise by using drums to give the formations a beat to refer to when walking. To accomplish this, each platoon had a old marching snare drum (cords and all) issued to it, and we were told to seek out drummers from the raw materials that passed through each training cycle.
During my last cycle before leaving the training unit, I managed to come up with an accomplished post-high school drummer with an evil mind akin to my own, and together we came up with the scheme of rolling out the 5/4 rhythm from "Mars, The Giver Of War" as our "street beat".
Of course, the other platoons did jazz it up a bit now and then, with classic broken pattern street beats, but they still stuck with the classic 4/4 march rhythm. Only the contrary Second Platoon went rolling along with a staggered rhythm, well trained not to worry about the extra beat in each bar but rather to pay attention to two bars at a time.
The wonderful thing about it was that the other mobs, not used to practicing to the every-other-measure-left-foot-first rhythm would be routinely thrown out of step, while my boys (having practiced to it diligently for hours on end) would roll along without a stumble. They would look bad, and my group would look good by comparison.
Classical music never has had much in the way of practical applications in my life, but that was one instance where it came in quite handy...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-02-01 13:42
By the way....what time is "America" from West Side Story?
Bob Draznik
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2007-02-01 14:10
steve,
"There are also German folk dance tunes called zwiefachers which contain measures of two (on which you pivot, as in polka) and measures of three (on which you do waltzing steps), in various alternating patterns. These are therefore not really 5/4, since they are distinct measures, but they certainly have a different feel than either two or three alone"
only playable on german clarinets of course :-) !!
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2007-02-01 14:37
America, at least in the most recent version that I played (manuscript parts still, but different from the previous two outings of the same show) is in alternating bars of "two beat time" and "three beat time". Not anywhere near a waltz, mind you.
Those Deutcher combination beasts have the waltz time first, followed by the two beat time bar. I've seen it performed, but have never played one myself to my knowledge.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2007-02-01 15:53
buedsma wrote:
> steve,
>
> "There are also German folk dance tunes called zwiefachers
> which contain measures of two (on which you pivot, as in polka)
> and measures of three (on which you do waltzing steps), in
> various alternating patterns. These are therefore not really
> 5/4, since they are distinct measures, but they certainly have
> a different feel than either two or three alone"
>
> only playable on german clarinets of course :-) !!
Playable on my Patricola C Boehm system. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) Actually, the only "authentic" recording I've heard was on a cassette made by a fellow band member from some original source recording she had. I believe the instruments were an "oompah" brass band, and there were two or three frauleins singing in close harmony. One can just picture it. ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
Steve Epstein
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2007-02-02 02:24
GBK,
Not that you've lost any sleep over this issue, but the third Mission Impossible score thankfully returns to 5/4.
Sue
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2007-02-02 22:49
I couldn't help but notice the Zweifacher comments. My wife and I have danced them many times at folk dance camps over the years (since 1966 or so). A very popular song is Eisenkeilnest. I did a google search of Eisenkeilnest and found:
(Click on the midi file; it's much better with clarinets, accordions etc.):
http://www.stammtischmusik.at/noten/images/Eisenkeilnest2f.mid
The sheet music:
http://www.stammtischmusik.at/noten/eisenkeilnest.shtml
Not really waltzes, but an interesting blend of 3/4 and 2/4 and usually played on clarinets.
John
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2007-02-03 06:33
Oh, cool, you've got the lyrics!
Our instruments of the Mother Zwiefacher Orchestra are: clarinet (me), bass clarinet (not me), two recorders, fiddle, piano, and sometimes a squeezebox, usually an English concertina.
Steve Epstein
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